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为什么对待来世,不朽和乌托邦的正确方法是怀疑 | Michael Shermer – 译学馆
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为什么对待来世,不朽和乌托邦的正确方法是怀疑 | Michael Shermer

Why Skepticism Is the Right Approach to the Afterlife, Immortality, and Utopia | Michael Shermer

不 你可能不会升入天堂
Nope, you’re probably not going to heaven
Heaven on Earth是我之前的书里的扩展内容
Well, that, Heavens on Earth was something of an extension of my previous books.
之前我并未对来世有过任何详细阐述
I have not covered the afterlife in any kind of detail,
我在书里写过的是非科学事件 超自然现象 宗教 神 道德等等
from my previous books on… the paranormal, the supernatural, religion, God morality
因此今天所讲的内容自然就会涉及到来世
and so this was sort of a natural extension of
那么 你是否对这些事物心存疑惑呢
well, if you’re skeptical of all these other things,
真的有来世吗
what about the afterlife?
我的答案是 有
And my standard one liner is: “I’m for it.”
但我认为它存在 并不能证明其真的存在
But the fact that I’m for it doesn’t make it true,
事实上 任何事物
in fact, if anything,
我们越渴望证实它的存在
the more passionately we want something to be true,
我们就越会对自己的信仰产生怀疑
the more skeptical we should be of our own beliefs,
因为我们知道认知偏见有多可怕
because we know how powerful these cognitive biases
它导致我们想要寻找证据
are to lead us to want to find evidence
寻找证实事物存在的证据
for what we already want to be true.
所以我开始了一项研究
So I really kind of went in search of,
关于所有来世与天堂的 标准的宗教性学说
just all the standard religious, theories of the afterlife and heaven.
我研究了
I go through the mo…great,
三个最著名的一神教 基督教 天主教和伊斯兰教
the big three monotheism, Judaism, Christianity and Islam,
关于它们
and…you know, right…right there,
在它们的宗教历史中
all of them have a history in the sense of
在各自不同的经卷中
all the different versions that there are
都有关于来世和天堂的内容
of the afterlife and heaven.
如果你读过宇宙学的相关历史
And they’re quite different histories than say
就会发现 它们是不同的
if you read a history of cosmology
它展现了古代人进步的历程
which, sort of, shows a progression from the ancients,
经历了科学革命
through the scientific revolution, you know,
从近代到现代
through the early modern period all the way up to today
我们越来越接近于
of us, getting closer and closer to a,
对宇宙本质的实际认知
an understanding of the real nature of the cosmos.
但是这并不能与宗教史上的来世相提并论
But there’s nothing like that in religious histories of the afterlife,
它们都只是胡言乱语
they’re…they’re all scattershot.
不论这种说法 还是那种说法
this theory, this theory, there’s no,
完全没有一点进步
there’s no sense of progress.
仅此一点也告诉我们
That alone tells us that these are
这些是取决于文化信仰 或是地理位置的学说
ur…culturally determined, geographically located,
比如说 再生 一种认为人死能复生的学说
like reincarnation, the belief that we come back.
它认为 我们的灵魂会以某种方式
In this world, our soul somehow
占据别人的躯壳 从而复生
migrated into other bodies.
可这些灵魂为什么只盘踞在印度次大陆上
Why do they seem to hover all thosesouls in the subcontinent of India?
就好像 灵魂几乎不会
You know, there’s very few other places around the world
去往世界上其他地方
where the soul seemed to go.
这意味着 这些学说
That’s an indication that these things are
在现实意义上 是不正确的
not real out there in the real world sense,
它只是受文化影响 而存在于人类的脑海中
but real inside people’s heads as determined by their cultures.
而Heaven on Earth这本书的核心是
But the core of Heavens on Earth really is
关于“来世”这个话题的 科学层面的研究
the scientific search for the afterlife.
这也是我从事科学文章写作
And so this is what I do science writing
进行科学领域研究的方向
and research scientific areas
无论你相信与否 来生 已不是一个小众的概念
Believe it or not, this is no longer a fringe idea,
这关系到我们是否能够永生
this is the idea that we could live forever.
现在有些科学家也说到
There are scientists today who say that
第一个活了上千年的人 至今依然活着
the first person to live a thousand years is alive today.
当然 我对此是表示怀疑的
Okay, I’m skeptical, okay.
但我还是要说 这不是什么奇怪的想法
But still, these aren’t fringe nuts.
有些亿万富翁 比如彼得·蒂尔 亚马逊创始人杰夫·贝索斯
These are billionaires like Peter Thiel, Jeff Bezos of Amazon,
谷歌创始人拉里和谢尔盖 这些人一起
the Google guys, Larry and Sergey have invested
投资数亿美元建立了Calico公司
you know, hundreds millions of dollars in this company Calico,
由雷·库兹韦尔出任总工程师
you know, Ray Kurzweil is their chief engineer,
这个人相信“奇点”的存在
and who believes in the singularity.
所以这个关于人类基础寿命延长
So this whole idea of radical life extension,
人体冷冻技术 以及超人类主义的项目
cryonics, transhumanism, you know,
关于何时开始把人类大脑与计算机联结起来
the singularity we’re gonna upload our minds into a computer,
这些内容是我这本书里的重点
these form the core center of my book.
为什么我对此持怀疑态度呢
And why I’m skeptical,
为什么我们都应该对此保持怀疑呢
why really all of us should be skeptical?
因为 首先 虽然这听上去不太可能
Because first, although it’s not impossible
我是说 研究人员和科学家们不太可能是错的
that…that these researchers and scientists are wrong,
他们不太可能会犯错 因为问题在于
it’s just very unlikely, because the problems of
无论用什么技术 克隆一个人的灵魂
say, duplicating your soul, whatever that would be
个人信息的载体——基因
in science that would be your pattern of information-your genome
以及具有相同功能的 “连接体”
and then the equivalent of that, your “connectome,”
它们能够帮助回溯记忆
that is the the tracings of all your memories
获知关于一个人的一切信息 这就是他们的理论
everything that’s you, this is their theory,
将这些复制一份 上传到计算机里
you, you copy it and you upload it into a computer.
然后 每晚备份一次
Let’s say, you have it backed up every night.
当你死去的时候 就能将其提取出来进行克隆
When you die, you just put it into a clone
或者输入计算机中 或者其他类似的方式
or inside a computer or something like that.
这就是他们的理论
That’s the idea.
然而我认为 这个问题的难度
And I think the underestimation of the complexity of the problem
被大大低估了
is orders of magnitude off.
我们从未试着做过这样的事
We are not even close to doing anything like this.
我是说 在雷·库兹韦尔的计划中 2040年才是个开始
I mean Ray Kurzweil projects 2040 is the singularity
自此之后 我们或许能获得永生
and after that, you know, we might be able to live forever.
这一切如何实现? “我们”又是什么人?
How is that going to happen, and who is the we?
所以 后面我又写了一章“我们是谁”
Okay, so then I have a chapter on “Who are we?
你是谁?
Who are you?
生而为人 是什么意思
What does it mean to be you?”
所以他 他们的理念是
And so they, their idea is that
如果复制了记忆 那“你”也就成为你了
if we just copied your memories, it would be you.
先等等 什么是记忆?
Stop right there, which memories?
几岁时的记忆 二十岁?三十岁?五十岁?还是六十岁?
At what age: 20, 30, 50, 60?
记忆并不是像储存在录像带里的那样
The memories are not stored in there like videotapes,
在你脑海里 就像坐在电影院里 就能倒带
like you just play it back on the theater of your mind
那是你15岁时 或者在别的年纪 真的发生过的事情
and there it is, what really happened when you were 15 or whatever
不 它们常常会被编辑 被修改
No, they’re constantly edited and changed.
那些神经网络一直在重新加工你的记忆
Those neural networks are reworked constantly
你对任何一个瞬间的回忆都不是真的
so there’s no real you in any snapshot sense of that moment,
“这一刻的你 是真实的你”
“Right there is the time when you’re you.”
不 没有这样的事
No, no such thing.
最后 是题为“透过你的双眼”的一章
And then finally there’s the “through your eyes perspective,”
也叫做“第一视角”
what’s called a point-of-view self.
所以 记忆视角
So the memory self, mem-self,
就像我刚才所描述的 就是第一视角
is what I just described, and it is the point-of-view self,
这是 可以说 我透过我的眼睛
which is, you know, me looking out of my eyes
看到你在看着我
at you right now and you looking out at me.
当我晚上入睡时
Now when I go to sleep tonight
我会失去自身的意识
there’s a disruption in my conscious point of view,
但是第二天清晨 意识又清醒了
but it comes back in the morning,
如果我接受了全身麻醉
and if I go under a general anesthesia,
我的意识会在数小时内消失又恢复
it’s gone for a couple of hours, it comes back,
一开始脑袋昏昏沉沉地 某个瞬间又突然清晰起来
a little groggy at first, but poof then it comes clear.
如果我死去 把我的大脑记忆复制一份
If I died, and then copied my brain
塞进计算机里 再打开它
and put it in a computer and turned the computer on,
我就会突然出现在里面
am I suddenly inside of the computer,
那个小小的摄像机镜头 就成了我的眼睛?
looking out the little, you know, camera hole?
我可不想这样
I don’t think so.
原因在于:如果在你还活着的时候就这么做
And here’s why: because if we did this while you were alive,
那我告诉你吧 现在的技术
let’s say the current technology would be that
只能在你死后把你的大脑拿出来切片
after you die, we take your brain out and slice it,
扫描每一个突触连接
and scan every single synaptic connection,
然后把一大团乱七八糟的数据塞进计算机
and then take that big data mass and put it into a computer.
但是在未来 可能差不多500年后吧
In the future, we maybe, maybe in 500 years or something,
才能做到活体大脑扫描
we could scan your brain while you’re living,
通过成熟的核磁共振成像技术扫描每一个神经连接
and scan through sophisticated MRI type technology every single neural connection.
假如我们现在就能实现这种技术
Let’s say we can do that now
获知连接体信息 再输入计算机
and get your connectome, and put it into a computer
就在你还活着的时候完成
while you’re standing right there alive.
然后打开计算机 那么在你还活着站在那儿的时候
So we turn it on, who is that in there, in the computer
计算机里的又是谁呢?
when you’re standing right there?
你发现这种理论的矛盾之处了吗?
You see the problem?
你不会站在外面
You’re not going to be standing there,
却说着“噢 我在计算机里” 你不会这样做的
going “yep there I am in the computer,” no.
你只会站在那里 说“不 我在这儿”
you’re going to be standing there going, “no, I’m me!”
除了双胞胎之外 不会有人看着另一个自己
No more than a twin would look at their other twin
说“噢 这是我自己” 不会的
and go “yeah there I go,” no.
所以 我觉得 即使他们能完成这项技术
So I don’t think even if they could accomplish the technology of it,
那你也不会是你了 不会是那个被放到未来
it’s still not you, being put into the future
而获得永生的“你”
ur…in terms of an afterlife.
顺便说一下 我认为宗教也有同样的悖论
And by the way, I think religions have the same problem.
当基督徒们说道
You know, when Christians talk about
“你将与耶稣一起复活 然后升入天堂”
“You’re going to wake up with Jesus, up in heaven,”
“可是 我实际上仍然还是身处人间啊”
“Okay, but I’m actually still down on the ground there.”
“不不不 是你的身躯仍在尘世 可你的灵魂会飞升的”
“No, no, no, that’s your body, your soul.”
“等等 那个灵魂是怎么回事?”
“Wait, what’s the soul?”
“是你的全部记忆 你懂吗 就是你自己呀”
“It’s all your memories, you know, it’s you.”
不是这样的
No.
究竟是我身体的哪个部分升入天堂了?
Which part of me is going to heaven?
它多大岁数?这类问题还有很多
What age and so on?
本质上还是同一个问题 只是一个复制体 升入了天堂
Same problem, it’s just a copy, going to heaven.
我还在人间 我还是会死去
I’m still in the ground; I’m still dead,
升入天堂的只是我的分身
it’s just some copy of me.
从我的视角来看 我并未在天堂里复活
I’m not waking up in heaven through my point of view.
这就是我这本书的核心问题
Ok, so that’s the core of the book,
我还写了一个副标题——
and then the subtitle of the book–
关于来世 永生不死和乌托邦的科学性研究
The Scientific Search for the Afterlife, Immortality, and Utopia
我研究的是在人间造出一个“天堂”的问题
–So, I do approach the problem of creating heavens on earth.
比如说 如果我们不能永生 或许我们可以造出一个完美的世界
Like if we can’t live forever, maybe we can create a perfect world here.
呃……造出一个天堂?
No, a heaven?
不 做不到的
No, you can’t do it.
这就是为什么 他们总是失败
This is why they’ve always failed.
乌托邦只是幻想 因为现实根本没有那样的地方
Utopias always fail because there is no such place,
这就是乌托邦的本质——乌有之乡
that’s the very definition of utopia—“nowhere”.
世间不存在这样完美的天堂
There is no such place that’s perfect,
因为人人生而不同 有不同的需求
because we’re so variable and people differ in their needs
有不同的愿望和理想 正因如此
and wants and desires, that this,
如果存在反乌托邦 那么它也是因为乌托邦的存在而存在的
if anything has been a dystopia, the search for utopia
同样也是因为 我们生而不同
as lead to dystopia because we all vary.
所以现实 没有乌托邦
So even that doesn’t work.
让我来做一个最后的总结
So I conclude then at the end
我所说的到底意味着什么?
sort of a discussion of what does it all mean?
如何在被各种学说迷了眼的情况下
Where do we find meaning and purpose in life,
找到生命的意义和目标呢?
if this is all there is?
如果人能永生 你是否会思考这些问题?
And if you think about it even if there is an afterlife,
如果真的有天堂呢?
even if there is a heaven,
这是眼下最重要的问题
this is the most important thing now,
未及来世 先求今生
not the here after but the here and now.
如何处理你
And the relationship you have
与这个世界 与其他人的关系
how you engage with the world and other people.
才是目前最重要的问题
That’s what counts, now.
好好享受人生吧
So make the most of it.
bt bigthink.com
bt bigthink.com

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为什么对待来世,不朽和乌托邦的正确方法是怀疑?当你与你的灵魂面对面时,你还是不是你?

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