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“自我”是什么?您身份的 3 个层次

What is the ‘self’? The 3 layers of your identity. | Sam Harris, Mark Epstein & more | Big Think

文化 GISH JEN:《The Girl at the Baggage Claim》的作者
GISH JEN: In the West, we feel that we must differentiate ourselves from others, endlessly.
GISH JEN:在西方 我们总觉得要和别人有所区分
We have a model of self where the self is kind of like an avocado.
我们有一个状似牛油果的自我模型
We have a pit inside of us.
我们内里有个果核
The pit is our self, our essence, our identity.
这个果核是我们自己 我们本身 我们自身
It is the thing to which we must above all be true.
这是我们必须真诚对待的东西
And of course, very importantly, we see that pit as unique.
当然 重要的是 我们把这个果核看作独一无二
So that everything we do
因此我们做的一切
we want to show, to reflect that pit, to reflect that self.
都是为了展示和反映那个果核 那个自我
And we want it to be unique.
我们想要成为独一无二的
In Asia, people frequently have a flexi-self, so it’s a different kind of self.
在亚洲 人们的个性通常更灵活 这是另外一种自我
It is a self that’s oriented more to duty than to rights, for instance.
是一种更注重义务而不是权利的自我
And very importantly, it is not,
更重要的是
it does not have a cultural mandate to be different and to be unique.
他们没有这种要与众不同 要独一无二的文化使命
So if you ask, are they individuals?
所以如果你要问 他们是不是个体
Of course they’re individuals.
他们当然是个体了
You know, are they different?
那他们是不一样的个体吗?
Of course they are different.
他们当然不一样了
But of course, for them, it’s like, well of course I’m different,
但是对于他们来说 就像是 我当然与众不同
why would I make a big deal of that, right?
但我也没必要广而告之 对吧
The difference is, how much significance do we attach to that difference?
区别在于 我们赋予这种不同的意义大小
In other words,
换句话说
do we think it’s very important to differentiate ourselves from others?
我们是否会觉得 不同于他人这点很重要?
So one of the ways that we do that, of course, is through choice.
我们对待这种想法的方式 可以通过做选择表现出来
Choice in the West is very, very important.
在西方 抉择非常非常重要
Everyone is always making choices.
每个人都无时无刻不在做抉择
And honestly, a lot of those choices make us a little anxious.
事实上 很多抉择都会让我们有些焦虑
If you do a study
我们可以做个研究
where you are just sitting in an empty room, and you’re making a choice,
如果你是个来自强调个体主义文化背景的人
and you come from a more individualistic culture,
当你独自坐在空房间中并需要做出某种选择时
you actually show signs of a little anxiety.
实际上 你是会表现出一些紧张情绪的
Every little choice that you make, even in private,
你做的每一个小决定 即便是私下的决定
because it’s defining of who you are, is a little loaded.
都是有分量的 因为这体现了你是什么样的人
They feel like, they just choose.
而他们就觉得 这只是一个决定而已
When they make those choices it doesn’t have this overlay.
他们在做选择时 则并没有这层顾虑
And that’s one of the reasons they feel that actually we are less free than they are.
这就是他们认为我们不如他们自由的原因之一
So they think that we are the ones who are kind of in this prison where, like I say,
所以他们觉得我们 就像我说的
every moment we must define ourselves.
被关在“每时每刻都要定义自己”的监狱里
Well, isn’t that awful?
听起来很可怕是吧
And of course the way that we live,
当然 我们的生活方式
we feel that, we want to be freely electing
让我们想要去自由的选择
to live the way that we live.
自己的生活方式
And so even when we’re doing things like taking care of the elderly, for example,
所以即便当我们做一些照顾老人之类的事时
we want to feel that it’s an extension of our great love,
我们都想表现出这是我们爱意的延伸
and the nature of our being to be able to take care of the elderly.
而我们的本性就是有能力去照顾老人
Well, the other day I was having dinner with somebody who said,
不过 几天前我和别人一起吃饭
I just don’t feel that.
他说他没有这种感觉
And it’s just very, very hard.
就是很难有这种感觉
So somebody from a more flexi-self, or interdependent culture, would say,
而来自更灵活自我或者互助型文化的人就会说
it’s just your duty.
这就是你的责任啊
And so for them, it’s like, you know, they help their elderly parent.
对他们而言 帮助年迈的父母很正常
They just go take care of the elderly parent because that’s their duty.
他们会自然而然地照顾父母 因为这是责任
For them, this is really liberating.
对于他们来说 这反而是一种解脱
You just go do it and you don’t expect it to be an expression of yourself.
你只用去做 你不用期望它是你自己情感的表现
It’s just what people do.
人们就是这么做的
From their point of view, we have made things very, very hard for ourselves to demand that
他们的观点是 我们要求一切都应该是内在本性的表现
everything should be an expression of our inner nature.
这会把事情变得非常非常困难
东方哲学
MICHAEL PUETT: We often like to think that the way to become a good person
MICHAEL PUETT:我们总是觉得 成为一个好人
is to look within, find one’s true self, the sort of natural self that we have.
需要自省 寻找真我 那个最原始的自己
And once you’ve found that self, that natural thing that you are,
一旦你找到了那个自我 即你原本的样子
the goal is to be sincere and authentic to that true self.
接下来的目标就是真诚地忠于真我
So if we stick to what we naturally are meant to be,
所以如果我们坚守自己的自然本质
the gifts that we’re naturally endowed with,
和我们与生俱来的天赋
that’s how we can be a sincere, authentic person.
这样就能成为一个真诚的 真实的人
Now, a lot of our Chinese philosophers would say, that sounds good,
那么 很多中国哲学家就要说了 这听起来很不错
but is on the contrary extremely restraining—and constraining—to what we could do.
但恰恰相反 这极大的限制了我们的能力
The fact is, if we’re messy creatures, as many of them would say,
事实上 如果我们如他们所说 是无明的众生
what we perhaps are in our daily lives
那么在日常生活中
are simply people whose emotions are being pulled out all the time,
我们的情绪总是会被我们遇到的人
by people we encounter, interactions we have.
以及彼此间的互动所激发
And over time, those responses fall into kind of ruts and patterns
随着时间的流逝 这些反应会变成一种
that can just be repeated endlessly.
不断重复的惯例和模式
So someone does something, it makes me angry,
所以如果有人做了什么令我生气的事情
and not even because of what they immediately did,
这甚至不是因为他们当时的所作所为
but because for some reason
而是因为出于某种原因
it brings back say, someone from my childhood yelling at me.
它让我想起了小时候某人曾吼过我
And I just have a patterned response to a certain action, being done in a certain way,
而我只是对某种行为有一个模式化的反应
by anyone, that brings out a certain response.
任何人都会引发我的这种特定反应
So if they’re onto something in this,
所以如果那些学者们在这方面是对的
and I might add lots of psychological experiments show that they really are,
我得补充一下 很多心理实验表明他们确实是对的
then what that means if you try to look within and find your true self,
这就意味着如果你想内省 找到真我
this thing you think you naturally are,
寻找自己的本性
what you’re probably finding are just a bunch of patterns you’ve fallen into.
那你找到的可能只是一套你的习惯行为模式
Many of which could potentially be dangerous, for you, for those around you.
其中一些模式还可能会对你和周围人有潜在危险
And if that’s the goal, you should be trying to break those patterns, alter those patterns,
你应该以试着打破它 改变它为目标
change the way you interact in the world.
改变你对待世界的方式
And if you’re simply saying, I should be who I naturally am meant to be,
如果你说 我就应该要做我本来的样子
well, what you’re probably doing is simply continuing to follow a bunch of patterns,
那么 你就仅仅是在继续遵循这些模式而已
probably destructive to yourself,
而这些模式可能会毁掉你自己
and almost assuredly destructive to those around you.
也几乎肯定会对你身边的人造成破坏
The idea is it’s constant work
关键在于 这是一项长期的努力
working through these patterns we’re falling into,
我们要不断的面对这些习惯模式
altering these patterns, breaking these patterns, creating different patterns.
改变 打破这些模式 并创造新模式
And it’s an endless work of every situation, from the very mundane
从日常小事到宏观层面
to the very, very large scale, of constantly trying to shift these patterns for the better.
尝试改变和优化这些模式是一项无尽的工作
And the vision is that, and really only that, is what the good life is.
最终的愿景是且仅是 止于至善
The good life is a world in which as many of us as possible,
至善是一个绝大多数人
ideally everyone, is flourishing.
或更理想的 是每个人都能富足生活的世界
And you’ll never get there, but it’s a lifelong process
你可能永远无法达到 但创造人人富足的世界
of ever trying to create worlds within which we can flourish.
却应该是毕生追求
MARK EPSTEIN: There’s this notion in Buddhist psychology of egoless-ness or no-self.
MARK EPSTEIN:在佛教心理学中有这样一个概念:无我
And most people misinterpret that, as Freud actually did,
大多数人都误解了这一含义 比如弗洛伊德
most people misinterpret it to think that, oh,
大多数人误认为 哦
Buddhism is saying we don’t need the ego at all, or we don’t need the self at all.
佛教说 我们根本不需要自我
Like get rid of it, and then we’re one with everything, and that’s it.
摆脱它 我们就拥有一切 像这样
And I think that’s wrong.
我认为这不对
Obviously, we need our egos.
很显然 我们需要自我
A good friend of mine, Robert Thurman,
我的一个好朋友 Robert Thurman
who’s a professor of Buddhism at Columbia, professor of religion at Columbia.
他是哥伦比亚大学的一位佛学宗教教授
He had a Mongolian teacher in the 1960s
在20世纪60年代 他的一位蒙古导师
who used to say to him about this topic of egolessness or selflessness
和他讨论无我这个话题时说
“It’s not that you’re not real.
“佛陀并不是说你不是真的
Of course you’re real, you have a self.
你当然是真实的 你确实有一个自我
But people like you, secular people who don’t really understand,
只是像你这样不了解佛意的世俗之人
think that they’re really real.”
以为你们的自我是真的”
And what Buddhism is teaching is that
佛教的教义认为
that belief in your own really realness is misguided.
那个你信以为真的自我其实是被误导的
We take ourselves more seriously than we need to.
我们过于看重自我
The self is not as fixed as we would like to think.
自我并非如我们以为的那样一成不变
The ego is born out of fear and isolation.
自我是伴随恐惧和孤立产生的
It comes into being when self-consciousness
它开始于自我意识刚形成的时候
first starts to come when you’re two or three years old,
当你两岁或三岁时
and you start to realize, oh, there’s a person in here.
你开始意识到自己是个独立的人
And you’re kind of like trying to make sense of everything,
你开始试着理解身边的事情
who you are, who are those parents there.
自己是谁 父母是谁
The ego is a way of organizing oneself,
自我是一种自我组织方式
and it comes from the intellect as the mind starts to click in.
它来自于大脑开始思考时的智力
And for many people
对于很多人来说
it stays in a kind of immature place
自我停滞在了一个不成熟的阶段
where our thinking mind, our intellect, is defining for ourselves who we are.
在这个阶段 我们的头脑 智力来定义我们是谁
Either taking all the negative feedback, like I’m not good enough,
它们要么接收所有的负面反馈 如我不够好
and the ego fastens onto all the negativity.
于是自我就抓取所有的消极情绪
Or the positive, the affirmation, like oh, I’m really something.
要么接收积极和肯定 比如我真了不起之类的
And the ego likes certainty, it likes security, it likes repetition.
自我喜欢确定感 安全感及重复行为
And so it’s always reinforcing its own vision of itself.
所以它总是在强化自己对自己的看法
And that starts to restrict.
于是它开始限制我们
It starts to restrict us, to confine us, to make us think
它开始控制我们 局限我们 让我们以为
that we know ourselves better than we actually do.
我们比实际上更了解自己
神经系统科学
SAM HARRIS: One of the problems we have in discussing consciousness scientifically
SMA HARRIS:我们从科学的角度探讨意识时
is that consciousness is irreducibly subjective.
其中一个问题是 意识其实是完全主观的
Consciousness is what it’s like to be you.
意识就是你想成为的样子
If there’s an experiential internal qualitative dimension to any physical system,
如果人体系统还存在一个内在的经验定性尺度的话
then that is consciousness.
那就是意识
And we can’t reduce the experiential side
我们不能撇开经验性的一面
to talk of information processing, and neurotransmitters,
来讨论信息处理 神经递质
and states of the brain in our case.
和我们大脑的状态
And people want to do this.
人们常会这样做
Someone like Francis Crick said famously, you’re nothing but a pack of neurons.
正如Francis Crick的名言所说 你什么也不是 只是一组神经元
And that misses the fact that half of the reality we’re talking about
这忽略了一个事实 即我们所讨论的现实
is the qualitative experiential side.
有一半来自于经验性的一面
So when you’re trying to study human consciousness,
所以 当你试图研究人类意识时
for instance, by looking at states of the brain,
如 研究大脑状态时
all you can do is correlate experiential changes with changes in brain states.
你要做的就是 把大脑状态变化和经验变化联系起来
But no matter how tight these correlations become,
但不管这些联系有多紧密
that never gives you license to throw out the first-person experiential side.
你也不能抛开亲历者的个人经验
That’d be analogous to saying that if you just flipped a coin long enough
这就好比说 如果你抛硬币的时间足够长
you would realize it had only one side.
你就会意识到它只有一面
And now it’s true you can be committed to talking about just one side.
现在你确实可以只讨论其中的一面
You can say that heads being up is just the case of tails being down.
你可以说正面朝上就是反面朝下
But that doesn’t actually reduce one side of reality to the other.
但这并不会降低另一面存在的真实性
I’m not arguing that consciousness is a reality beyond science,
我并不是在说意识是高于科学的存在
or beyond the brain, or that it floats free of the brain at death.
或者说超出大脑 或者说它在死亡时游离于脑外
I’m not making any spooky claims about its metaphysics.
我并不是在散布幽灵般的玄学言论
What I am saying, however, is that the self is an illusion.
我想说的是 自我是一种幻觉
The sense of being an ego, an I,
感觉有一个“自我” 或者“我”存在
a thinker of thoughts in addition to the thoughts,
或除了思想还有一个“思考者”存在
an experiencer in addition to the experience.
除了经历还有一个“经历者”存在
That the sense that we all have of riding around inside our heads
这样的感觉都曾出现在我们脑海中
as a kind of a passenger in the vehicle of the body,
就像有一个乘客在驾驭我们的身体
that’s where most people start when they think about any of these questions.
那就是大多数人开始思考这些问题的地方
Most people don’t feel identical to their bodies.
大部分人会觉得和他们的身体不是一体
They feel like they have bodies.
他们觉得他们“拥有”身体
They feel like they’re inside the body.
他们觉得他们住在身体内
And most people feel like they’re inside their heads.
大多数人觉得他们住在自己的大脑里
Now that sense of being a subject,
那种存在一个主体的感觉
a locus of consciousness inside the head,
那种意识是存在于大脑中的感觉
is an illusion.
其实是一种幻觉
That is, it makes no neuroanatomical sense,
这在神经解剖学上毫无意义
there’s no place in the brain for your ego to be hiding.
大脑中没有自我意识的隐藏空间
We know that everything you experience,
你所经历过的任何事情
your conscious emotions, and thoughts, and moods,
你的意识情感和思想 情绪
and the impulses that initiate behavior, all of these things are delivered by
和激发行为的冲动 所有这些都由
myriad different processes in the brain that are spread out over the whole of the brain.
遍布于大脑的无数个不同程序所传递
They can be independently erupted.
他们可以独立爆发
We have a changing system, we are a process.
我们有个变化着的系统 我们是一个程序
And there’s not one unitary self that’s carried through
没有一个单一的自我意识
from one moment to the next, unchanging.
能从一个时刻持续到下一个时刻 保持不变
And yet we feel that we have this self that’s just this center of experience.
而我们感觉到的自我意识其实只是一个经验中心

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视频概述

自我是什么?这里从不同的角度解读了自我的几个层次以及自我的本质

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哼灬怎么样

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视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0TzeH6Zmog

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