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当你看见我的时候,你会想到什么

What do you think when you look at me? | Dalia Mogahed

当你看着我的时候
What do you think when you look at me?
你在想什么? 一个有信仰的女人?
A woman of faith? An expert?
一个专家?甚至可能是修女
Maybe even a sister.
又或是受到压迫
Or oppressed,
被洗脑了
brainwashed,
一个恐怖分子
a terrorist.
或仅仅是机场安检的时候要久一点
Or just an airport security line delay.
这倒是事实
That one’s actually true.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
如果一些人的想法是负面的 我不会真的责怪他们
If some of your perceptions were negative, I don’t really blame you.
毕竟媒体是如此描绘
That’s just how the media has been portraying
像我一样的穆斯林的
people who look like me.
一项调查发现
One study found
80%关于伊斯兰和穆斯林的新闻报道是负面的
that 80 percent of news coverage about Islam and Muslims is negative.
研究也表明大部分美国人不认识穆斯林 我猜大概人们不跟
And studies show that Americans say that most don’t know a Muslim.
Uber 司机聊天吧
I guess people don’t talk to their Uber drivers.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
好吧 对于那些从来没有遇见过穆斯林的人
Well, for those of you who have never met a Muslim,
很高兴见到你
it’s great to meet you.
让我来告诉你我是谁
Let me tell you who I am.
我是一位母亲 也是咖啡爱好者——
I’m a mom, a coffee lover —
特浓咖啡
double espresso, cream on the side.
加奶油 我是个内向的人
I’m an introvert.
即将成为健身狂热分子
I’m a wannabe fitness fanatic.
以及我信仰穆斯林但跟
And I’m a practicing, spiritual Muslim.
Lady Gaga 所说不同 因为我并非生来就是穆斯林
But not like Lady Gaga says, because baby, I wasn’t born this way.
这是我自己的选择
It was a choice.
当我 17 岁的时候
When I was 17, I decided to come out.
我决定出柜 与我的一些朋友不同 我不是一名同性恋
No, not as a gay person like some of my friends,
我是一名穆斯林
but as a Muslim,
并且决定开始带希贾布 就是我的头巾
and decided to start wearing the hijab, my head covering.
我的女权主义朋友对此感到很吃惊:
My feminist friends were aghast:
“你为什么要压抑你自己?”
“Why are you oppressing yourself?”
有意思的是
The funny thing was,
这在当时算是女权主义的独立宣言
it was actually at that time a feminist declaration of independence
那时我17岁 受到很大的压力
from the pressure I felt as a 17-year-old,
要服从一个完美的、难以达到的美的标准
to conform to a perfect and unattainable standard of beauty.
我并非被动地接受我父母的信仰
I didn’t just passively accept the faith of my parents.
我曾与《可兰经》搏斗过
I wrestled with the Quran.
在阅读《可兰经》的过程中 我反思、质疑、
I read and reflected and questioned and doubted
怀疑
and, ultimately, believed.
最终相信 我和真主的关系并非一见钟情
My relationship with God — it was not love at first sight.
而是信任 是慢慢投降
It was a trust and a slow surrender
每次阅读《可兰经》都加深了我的信仰
that deepened with every reading of the Quran.
有时我被其节奏的美丽感动至流泪
Its rhythmic beauty sometimes moves me to tears.
我看到自己置身其中 我觉得真主好像懂我
I see myself in it. I feel that God knows me.
你们是否曾遇到过有人完完全全地懂你
Have you ever felt like someone sees you, completely understands you
无论如何都爱着你?
and yet loves you anyway?
这就是我的感受
That’s how it feels.
之后 我结婚
And so later, I got married,
和所有优秀的埃及人一样
and like all good Egyptians,
成为一名工程师
started my career as an engineer.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
婚后我有了一个孩子
I later had a child, after getting married,
我的人生似乎实现了埃及人的美国梦
and I was living essentially the Egyptian-American dream.
2001 年 9 月那个恐怖的早上
And then that terrible morning of September, 2001.
我想在座很多人都记得那个早上你们在哪里吧
I think a lot of you probably remember exactly where you were that morning.
我当时坐在厨房里吃早餐
I was sitting in my kitchen finishing breakfast,
看着电视 上面出现“爆炸新闻”
and I look up on the screen and see the words “Breaking News.”
电视画面有很多烟 飞机撞向大楼
There was smoke, airplanes flying into buildings,
人们从大楼往外跳
people jumping out of buildings.
到底发生了什么?
What was this?
是事故吗?
An accident?
是机械故障吗?
A malfunction?
我很快从震惊变成愤怒
My shock quickly turned to outrage.
谁会这么做?
Who would do this?
我换台
And I switch the channel and I hear,
听到“…穆斯林恐怖分子…
“… Muslim terrorist …,”
” “…以伊斯兰之名… ”
“… in the name of Islam …,”
“…中东血统… ”
“… Middle-Eastern descent …,”
“…圣战… ”
“… jihad …,”
“…我们应该炸掉
“… we should bomb Mecca.”
麦加”
Oh my God.
天哪! 不只是我的国家受到袭击
Not only had my country been attacked,
而且一瞬间
but in a flash,
别人都不再视我为市民
somebody else’s actions had turned me from a citizen
而是嫌疑犯
to a suspect.
那天 我们不得不驾车穿越美国中部
That same day, we had to drive across Middle America
搬到一个新的城市开始念研究生
to move to a new city to start grad school.
我记得坐在车里
And I remember sitting in the passenger seat
一路沉默
as we drove in silence,
在我的座位上尽可能的俯身低一点
crouched as low as I could go in my seat,
生平第一次我害怕别人知道我是一名穆斯林
for the first time in my life, afraid for anyone to know I was a Muslim.
那天晚上 我们搬到一个新的镇子 住在一间公寓里
We moved into our apartment that night in a new town
好像是一个完全不同的世界
in what felt like a completely different world.
接着 我听到、看到、读到
And then I was hearing and seeing and reading
国家穆斯林组织的警告
warnings from national Muslim organizations
让我们“警觉”、
saying things like, “Be alert,” “Be aware,”
“注意”、 “待在照明良好的区域”、
“Stay in well-lit areas,” “Don’t congregate.”
“不要集会” 整个礼拜我都呆在家里
I stayed inside all week.
直到那周的周五
And then it was Friday that same week,
是穆斯林集会祷告的时间
the day that Muslims congregate for worship.
我再一次收到警告 “第一个礼拜五不要去
And again the warnings were, “Don’t go that first Friday,
可能成为袭击目标”
it could be a target.”
当时我在看新闻 铺天盖地的报道
And I was watching the news, wall-to-wall coverage.
民情激愤
Emotions were so raw, understandably,
可以理解我也听到针对穆斯林的袭击
and I was also hearing about attacks on Muslims,
或者是那些被认为是穆斯林的人被拉出来
or people who were perceived to be Muslim, being pulled out
当街暴打
and beaten in the street.
清真寺被炸掉
Mosques were actually firebombed.
我想我们应该呆在家里
And I thought, we should just stay home.
但我总觉得这样不对
And yet, something didn’t feel right.
因为那些袭击我们国家的恐怖分子袭击了
Because those people who attacked our country
我们的国家
attacked our country.
我理解人们对恐怖分子感到气愤
I get it that people were angry at the terrorists.
我也一样
Guess what? So was I.
不断跟别人解释自己的身份
And so to have to explain yourself all the time isn’t easy.
并非易事 我不介意质疑 我喜欢人们提问
I don’t mind questions. I love questions.
真正难以承受的是受到指责
It’s the accusations that are tough.
今天 我们听到人们真的会说
Today we hear people actually saying things like,
“这个国家存在问题 这个问题就是穆斯林
“There’s a problem in this country, and it’s called Muslims.
我们什么时候才能摆脱他们?
When are we going to get rid of them?”
“ 所以有的人想要禁止穆斯林
So, some people want to ban Muslims and close down mosques.
关闭清真寺 他们将穆斯林社区视为
They talk about my community kind of like we’re a tumor
美国的一颗肿瘤
in the body of America.
问题是这是一颗恶性肿瘤还是良性?
And the only question is, are we malignant or benign?
恶性肿瘤要完整的切除
You know, a malignant tumor you extract altogether,
而良性肿瘤只要好好控制
and a benign tumor you just keep under surveillance.
这个选择根本说不通 因为这完全是个错误的问题
The choices don’t make sense, because it’s the wrong question.
穆斯林跟所有美国人一样 不是美国的一颗肿瘤
Muslims, like all other Americans, aren’t a tumor in the body of America,
我们是重要的组成部分
we’re a vital organ.
(掌声)
(Applause)
谢谢
Thank you.
(掌声)
(Applause)
穆斯林中有发明家
Muslims are inventors and teachers,
有老师 有急救员 有奥运会运动员
first responders and Olympic athletes.
关闭清真寺真的会让美国更加安全吗?
Now, is closing down mosques going to make America safer?
这可能会让停车方便点
It might free up some parking spots,
但不会终止恐怖主义
but it will not end terrorism.
事实上定期去清真寺意味着
Going to a mosque regularly is actually linked
对于不同信仰的人更宽容
to having more tolerant views of people of other faiths
也意味着更多的公民参与感
and greater civic engagement.
最近一名华盛顿特区的警察长
And as one police chief in the Washington, DC area
告诉我
recently told me,
人们不会在清真寺变得激进
people don’t actually get radicalized at mosques.
人们在地下室、卧室、电脑前变得激进
They get radicalized in their basement or bedroom, in front of a computer.
人们对于激进演变过程的了解是
And what you find about the radicalization process
起于网络
is it starts online,
但往往是从
but the first thing that happens
这个人被社区抛弃、
is the person gets cut off from their community,
被家人抛弃开始的
from even their family,
极端组织开始对他们洗脑
so that the extremist group can brainwash them
让他们相信这些恐怖分子是真正的穆斯林
into believing that they, the terrorists, are the true Muslims,
任何憎恶他们行为和信仰的人
and everyone else who abhors their behavior and ideology
都是叛徒
are sellouts or apostates.
所以如果我们想要阻止激进
So if we want to prevent radicalization,
我们要让人们前往清真寺
we have to keep people going to the mosque.
现在有的人说伊斯兰是个暴力的信仰
Now, some will still argue Islam is a violent religion.
毕竟 ISIS 这么残忍的组织是基于《可兰经》的
After all, a group like ISIS bases its brutality on the Quran.
现在 作为一个穆斯林 作为一个母亲
Now, as a Muslim, as a mother, as a human being,
作为一个人 我想我们需要倾尽全力阻止 ISIS 这样的恐怖组织
I think we need to do everything we can to stop a group like ISIS.
但如果我们视他们为 16 亿穆斯林的代表
But we would be giving in to their narrative
那就等于我们向他们屈服
if we cast them as representatives of a faith of 1.6 billion people.
(掌声)
(Applause)
谢谢
Thank you.
ISIS 与伊斯兰有很深的关系
ISIS has as much to do with Islam
正如三K党与基督教有很深的关系
as the Ku Klux Klan has to do with Christianity.
(掌声)
(Applause)
这两个组织都宣称它们的意识形态基于两本圣书
Both groups claim to base their ideology on their holy book.
但当你看着他们 他们并没有
But when you look at them, they’re not motivated
从阅读圣书中获得激励
by what they read in their holy book.
他们本性中的残忍驱使他们以自己的方式解读圣书
It’s their brutality that makes them read these things into the scripture.
最近 一位杰出的阿訇目告诉我一个故事 让我大吃一惊
Recently, a prominent imam told me a story that really took me aback.
他说有一个女孩来找他
He said that a girl came to him
告诉他她想加入
because she was thinking of going to join ISIS.
ISIS 我非常惊讶
And I was really surprised and asked him,
问他这个女孩是否与激进的宗教领袖有接触?
had she been in contact with a radical religious leader?
他告诉我 问题恰恰相反
And he said the problem was quite the opposite,
每一个与她谈话过的阿訇都将她拒之门外
that every cleric that she had talked to had shut her down
他们说她的愤怒 她对世界正义的解读
and said that her rage, her sense of injustice in the world,
会让她陷入麻烦
was just going to get her in trouble.
因为四处碰壁 无法宣泄愤怒
And so with nowhere to channel and make sense of this anger,
她成为极端分子的目标
she was a prime target to be exploited
他们承诺向她提供出路
by extremists promising her a solution.
这位阿訇帮助她重回真主的怀抱
What this imam did was to connect her back to God and to her community.
回归社区 他并不因为她激动的情绪而看轻她相反的 他给她提供建设性的建议
He didn’t shame her for her rage — instead, he gave her constructive ways
做一些真正改变世界的事情
to make real change in the world.
这个女孩在清真寺的所学阻止她迈向
What she learned at that mosque prevented her from going to join ISIS.
ISIS 刚刚我跟你分享了一点
I’ve told you a little bit
伊斯兰恐惧症对我和我家庭的影响
about how Islamophobia affects me and my family.
那伊斯兰恐惧症又是如何影响普通的美国人的呢?
But how does it impact ordinary Americans?
它是如何影响每个人的呢?
How does it impact everyone else?
24 小时处于恐惧中如何影响我们的民主、
How does consuming fear 24 hours a day affect the health of our democracy,
如何阻碍我们自由的思考?
the health of our free thought?
研究——事实上是几项神经系统科学的研究——
Well, one study — actually, several studies in neuroscience —
表明 当我们恐惧的时候 至少三件事会发生
show that when we’re afraid, at least three things happen.
我们更倾向于接受独裁主义、
We become more accepting of authoritarianism,
服从和偏见
conformity and prejudice.
一项研究表明 当人们接触新的
One study showed that when subjects were exposed to news stories
消极的穆斯林故事的时候
that were negative about Muslims,
他们更容易接受对穆斯林国家的武装攻击
they became more accepting of military attacks on Muslim countries
和那些剥夺美国穆斯林权利的政策
and policies that curtail the rights of American Muslims.
时至今日 这不仅是一个学术问题
Now, this isn’t just academic.
反穆斯林情绪激增事件在
When you look at when anti-Muslim sentiment spiked
2001 至 2013 年期间
between 2001 and 2013,
一共发生了 3
it happened three times,
次但不是围绕恐怖袭击发生的
but it wasn’t around terrorist attacks.
而是在伊拉克战争和两次选举的过程发生的
It was in the run up to the Iraq War and during two election cycles.
所以伊斯兰恐惧症不仅仅是我曾预期的
So Islamophobia isn’t just the natural response to Muslim terrorism
针对穆斯林恐怖主义的自然回应
as I would have expected.
事实上 它成为了操纵公众的工具
It can actually be a tool of public manipulation,
腐蚀了自由社会的基础——理性
eroding the very foundation of a free society,

which is rational and well-informed citizens.
通晓的市民穆斯林是煤矿中的金丝雀
Muslims are like canaries in the coal mine.
我们可能是第一批感受到它的人
We might be the first to feel it,
但空气中弥漫着的恐惧伤害了我们所有人
but the toxic air of fear is harming us all.
(掌声)
(Applause)
集体承担负罪感
And assigning collective guilt
不仅仅意味着无时无刻要想别人解释自己
isn’t just about having to explain yourself all the time.
Deah和他的妻子Yusor是一对年轻的新婚夫妇
Deah and his wife Yusor were a young married couple
他们住在北卡罗来纳州的教堂山
living in Chapel Hill, North Carolina,
一起上学
where they both went to school.
Deah是一名运动员
Deah was an athlete.
他念的是牙科学校 很有天赋
He was in dental school, talented, promising …
前程似锦 他的姐姐曾告诉我 他是她所遇见的最棒的
And his sister would tell me that he was the sweetest,
最慷慨的人
most generous human being she knew.
她曾去看望他 他向她展示了简历
She was visiting him there and he showed her his resume,
她惊叹不已她说
and she was amazed.
“我的弟弟什么时候已经长成如此有成就的年轻男士?
She said, “When did my baby brother become such an accomplished young man?”
” 就在Suzanne拜访她弟弟夫妇的几周后
Just a few weeks after Suzanne’s visit to her brother and his new wife,
他们的邻居
their neighbor,
CraigStephen Hicks
Craig Stephen Hicks,
谋杀了他们
murdered them,
也杀害了Yusor的妹妹Razan 当天下午她正好去拜访他们
as well as Yusor’s sister, Razan, who was visiting for the afternoon,
事情就发生在他们的公寓里
in their apartment,
以处决的方式
execution style,
此前 他在Facebook主页上发布反穆斯林的宣言
after posting anti-Muslim statements on his Facebook page.
他射击了Deah八次
He shot Deah eight times.
所以偏执不仅仅是不道德的 也可能是致命的
So bigotry isn’t just immoral, it can even be lethal.
所以 回到我的故事
So, back to my story.
911事件之后发生什么?
What happened after 9/11?
我们去清真寺还是我们待在家里?
Did we go to the mosque or did we play it safe and stay home?
我们仔细考虑
Well, we talked it over,
这看似是一个小小的决定 但对我们来说
and it might seem like a small decision, but to us,
这关乎我们孩子未来生活的美国:
it was about what kind of America we wanted to leave for our kids:
是一个我们时时处于恐惧中的美国
one that would control us by fear
还是一个我们可以自由选择信仰的美国
or one where we were practicing our religion freely.
所以我们决定去清真寺
So we decided to go to the mosque.
我们把儿子安置在儿童座椅上
And we put my son in his car seat,
为他系上安全带 默默地紧张地开车 前往清真寺
buckled him in, and we drove silently, intensely, to the mosque.
我抱他出来 脱掉我的鞋子
I took him out, I took off my shoes, I walked into the prayer hall
走进祷告殿我眼前的景象让我停下了脚步
and what I saw made me stop.
祷告殿里站满了人
The place was completely full.
阿訇作了讲话
And then the imam made an announcement,
感谢并欢迎我们的贵宾
thanking and welcoming our guests,
因为一半的人
because half the congregation
是基督徒、犹太教徒、佛教徒、
were Christians, Jews, Buddhists, atheists,
无神论者 这些无论是有信仰的人 还是没信仰的人
people of faith and no faith,
不是来攻击我们 而是和我们站在一起
who had come not to attack us, but to stand in solidarity with us.
(掌声)
(Applause)
那个时刻我深受感动
I just break down at this time.
这些人到场 因为他们选择勇气和同情
These people were there because they chose courage and compassion
而非恐慌和偏见
over panic and prejudice.
那你的选择是什么呢?
What will you choose?
此时此刻 你是否会选择恐惧和偏见?
What will you choose at this time of fear and bigotry?
你是否会选择所谓的安全?
Will you play it safe?
还是你会选择加入那些说
Or will you join those who say
我们是更好的人?
we are better than that?
谢谢
Thank you.
(掌声)
(Applause)
非常感谢
Thank you so much.
Helen Walters:Dalia 你似乎引起了共鸣
Helen Walters: So Dalia, you seem to have struck a chord.
但我在想
But I wonder,
你会对那些认为
what would you say to those who might argue
你是一位有资格进行TED演讲的人说些什么?
that you’re giving a TED Talk,
显然你的想法很深刻
you’re clearly a deep thinker,
就职于一个很棒的智囊团
you work at a fancy think tank,
你是一个例外 不是一般的穆斯林
you’re an exception, you’re not the rule.
你会对持这种观点的人说什么?
What would you say to those people?
Dalia Mogahed: 我会说 请不要让这个舞台影响你
Dalia Mogahed: I would say, don’t let this stage distract you,
我是一个彻底的普通人
I’m completely ordinary.
我不是例外
I’m not an exception.
我的故事也很普通
My story is not unusual.
我和所有的穆斯林一样
I am as ordinary as they come.
当你看着世界各地的穆斯林时——
When you look at Muslims around the world —
我做过目前为止最大的
and I’ve done this, I’ve done the largest study ever done
针对穆斯林的研究——
on Muslims around the world —
人们想要的东西都很普通
people want ordinary things.
他们希望家庭繁荣
They want prosperity for their family,
他们想要工作
they want jobs
他们希望生活平静
and they want to live in peace.
所以从任何角度来说 我都不是例外
So I am not in any way an exception.
当你遇到与你所设想的标准不同的例外时
When you meet people who seem like an exception to the rule,
常常是这个标准出了问题
oftentimes it’s that the rule is broken,
而不是这个人有所不同
not that they’re an exception to it.
HW:
HW: Thank you so much. Dalia Mogahed.
非常感谢您Dalia (掌声 Mogahed).
(Applause)

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