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不必牺牲我们的权利去对抗恐怖主义 – 译学馆
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不必牺牲我们的权利去对抗恐怖主义

We can fight terror without sacrificing our rights | Rebecca MacKinnon

在今天的民主制度下
There’s a big question at the center of life
有个大问题围绕生活的中心
in our democracies today:
那就是 我们如何在对抗恐怖主义同时不破坏民主
How do we fight terror without destroying democracies,
不践踏人权?
without trampling human rights?
我工作的大部分时间都和世界范围内的新闻记者
I’ve spent much of my career working with journalists,
博客作家
with bloggers,
积极分子
with activists,
以及人权研究员打交道
with human rights researchers all around the world,
我得出的结论是
and I’ve come to the conclusion
如果我们的民主社会不能铁下心来
that if our democratic societies do not double down
保护并捍卫人权
on protecting and defending human rights,
媒体自由
freedom of the press
以及自由和开放的网络环境
and a free and open internet,
那么激进的极端主义 很可能会继续肆虐全球。
radical extremist ideologies are much more likely to persist.
(鼓掌)
(Applause)
好我说完了 谢谢大家
OK, all done. Thank you very much.
没有啦 开玩笑的
No, just joking.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
实际上我想稍微深入讨论这个问题
I actually want to drill down on this a little bit.
那么
So,
关于这个问题
one of the countries that has been
战斗在最前线的国家就是
on the frontlines of this issue
突尼斯
is Tunisia,
它是唯一一个通过成功的民主革命
which was the only country to come out of the Arab Spring
在“阿拉伯之春”运动中推翻政府的国家
with a successful democratic revolution.
五年后
Five years later,
突尼斯人民饱受严重恐怖袭击
they’re struggling with serious terror attacks
以及伊斯兰国腰猖獗征兵的折磨
and rampant ISIS recruitment.
所以 许多突尼斯民众呼吁政府
And many Tunisians are calling on their government
采取一切行动保证他们安危
to do whatever it takes to keep them safe.
布里斯卡通画家尼迪亚·凯哈利
Tunisian cartoonist Nadia Khiari
用一个漫画人物总结了当时的情况
has summed up the situation
漫画是这么说的
with this character who says,
“我不管什么人权
“I don’t give a damn about human rights.
我不管什么革命
I don’t give a damn about the revolution.
我也不管什么民主和自由
I don’t give a damn about democracy and liberty.
我只想安全的活着”
I just want to be safe.”
“那你满意了吧?”狱卒对他说,
“Satisfied?” asked his jailer.
“你现在很安全了”
“You’re safe now.”
如果突尼斯民众能够找出一个
If the Tunisian people can figure out
既能解决恐怖主义问题
how to deal with their terrorism problem
又不导致如此境地的解决方法
without ending up in this place,
那么他们将不仅成为该地区的楷模
they will be a model not only for their region,
而且是全世界所有人的榜样
but for all of us.
现实情况却是公民社会
The reality is that civil society,journalists and activists
新闻记者和积极分子
are coming under attack
一方面受极端组织的攻击
from extremist groups on the one hand,
另一方面 在许多国家
and, in many countries,
也承受着政府的压迫
also from their own governments.
我们看到 许多博客作家和新闻记者
We’re seeing bloggers and journalists being jailed,
被自己的政府关进监狱
charged and intimidated
控告和恐吓
by their own governments,
许多这些政府还是
many of which are allies with the West
西方国家的反恐同盟
in the war on terror.
举三个例子:
Just three examples.
我的一个朋友 也是过去的同事
A friend and former colleague of mine,
希沙姆·阿姆朗
Hisham Almiraat,
被控告与其他六位摩洛哥反动分子
has been charged with threatening state security,
威胁国家安全
along with six other activists in Morocco.
沙特阿拉伯博客作家莱芙·巴达维
The Saudi blogger Raif Badawi has been jailed and flogged
因为在博客批判伊斯兰教以及沙特政权
for insulting Islam and criticizing
被关入监狱鞭打
the Saudi regime on his blog.
最近的一次
More recently, the Turkish representative
土耳其无国界记者组织代表
for Reporters Without Borders,
埃罗尔·欧德格鲁
Erol Önderoglu,
以扩散宣传恐怖主义的名义被拘留起诉
has been detained and charged with spreading terrorist propaganda,
只因为他和其他积极分子
because he and some other activists
支持库尔德媒体
have been supporting Kurdish media.
如果不保护弱势群体
Anti-terror measures quickly turn into state repression
捍卫和平言论
without strong protection for minority communities
以及和平辩论;
and for peaceful debate.
这需要一个强有力
This needs to be supported
并独立的本地媒体支持
by a robust, independent local media.
但且不说这些并没有实现
But while that’s not really happening,
反而是华盛顿方面与硅谷好莱坞联合
Washington is teaming up with Silicon Valley and with Hollywood
投入百万——上千万美元——
to pour millions — hundreds of millions of dollars —
执行所谓的“反信息沟通”
into what’s called “counter-messaging,”
一个带了华丽面具的政府宣传
a fancy word for propaganda.
为了对抗 恐怖主义在网络上的大肆宣扬,
To counter the terrorist propaganda
的恐怖主义宣传
spreading all over the internet,
欧洲建立了网络举报中心
in Europe, Internet Referral Units are being set up,
让人们举报他们发现的极端言论
so that people can report on extremist content that they find
并进行审查
and get it censored.
问题是
The problem is,
所有这些宣传监管和审查
that all of this propaganda, monitoring and censorship
都弄错了一个事实
completely fails to make up for the fact
是这些可信的人的发声
that the people who are the most credible voices,
是他们提出的可靠意见和解决方法
who can present credible ideas and alternative solutions
才可能解决
to real economic,
社会中实际经济 政治和社会问题
social and political problems in their community
这些问题恰恰是人们最初
that are causing people to turn to
投向恐怖主义的原因
extremism in the first place,
这希望的声音却被自己的政府压制了
are being silenced by their own governments.
这进一步降低了 世界范围内人们的自由度。
This is all adding up to a decrease in freedom across the world.
据人权组织
Freedom House,
美国自由之家报道:
the human rights organization,
2015年是全世界范围内
reports that 2015 marks the 10th straight year in a row
自由连续倒退的第十年
of decline in freedom worldwide.
这不仅归咎于
And this is not just because of the actions
独裁政府的统治
of authoritarian governments.
也是因为民主政府
It’s also because democratic governments
不断地镇压持不同意见者
are increasingly cracking down on dissenters,
秘密揭发者
whistle-blowers
以及采访记者
and investigative journalists.
联合国秘书长潘基文曾警醒大家:
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon has warned
“打击极端主义和保卫人权必须齐头并进”
that “preventing extremism and promoting human rights go hand-in-hand.”
并不是说政府不应该保护我们的安全
It’s not to say that governments shouldn’t keep us safe —
他们当然应该
of course they should —
但是我们需要公众监督
but we need public oversight, transparency
需要保障法制的透明和问责
and accountability to the rule of law.
与此同时
Meanwhile,
极端分子的的确确在一些国家杀害了许多公民
extremists are literally killing off civil society in some countries.
2013年以来
Since 2013 in Bangladesh,
孟加拉有超过十位不信教的博客作者和社区积极分子
over a dozen secular bloggers and community activists
确实被极端分子屠杀了
have been literally slaughtered by extremists
政府却没采取什么行动
while the government has done very little.
在叙利亚的一个城市拉卡
From the city of Raqqa in Syria,
许多像汝恰·哈桑和纳吉·杰尔夫这样的人都被暗杀了
people like Ruqia Hassan and Naji Jerf have been assassinated
因为他们在所谓的“不受伊斯兰国控制的领地”
for their reporting out of ISIS-controlled territory.
叫拉卡的公民媒体组织正被偷偷的屠杀
The citizen media group called Raqqa is Being Slaughtered Silently
(组织)依靠强力的加密技术发布报告
relies on strong encryption to send out their reports
并保护信息不被拦截不被窃听
and shield themselves from interception and surveillance.
然而像美国和英国
Yet authorities in countries like the United States,
以及其他民主国家的权威
the United Kingdom and many other democracies
正在寻求法律
are seeking to use the law
来弱化 甚至彻底地禁止强加密技术
to either weaken or outright ban strong encryption,
因为坏人也会利用这个技术
because the bad guys are using it, too.
我们必须为公民争取利用强加密技术的权利
We have got to fight for the right of citizens to use strong encryption.
否则异议者和采访记者
Otherwise, dissent and investigative journalism
在更多情况下
are going to become even more difficult
处境会变得更加艰难
in even more places.
而恶势力——犯罪分子和恐怖分子——
And the bad guys — the criminals and terrorists —
仍在寻求沟通的渠道
are still going to find ways to communicate.
称赞一下那些支持用户
Kudos to the companies that are standing up
争取使用加密技术权利的公司
for their users’ right to use encryption.
至于审查方面
But when it comes to censorship,
局面就变得更复杂了
the picture is much more troubling.
是的 极端主义内容通过网络
Yes, there’s a real problem
向四处传播仍然是现实问题
of extremist content spreading all over the internet.
许多公司 包括脸书、推特和Youtube网站
And Facebook, YouTube and Twitter are among the many companies
都被报道曾撤回了
who report having taken down hundreds of thousands of pieces of content
上千条与极端主义有关的内容
and deactivating accounts
并注销发表相关言论的账户
that are connected to the extremist’s speech.
问题是这些公司的执行机制完全是幕后操作
The problem is their enforcement mechanisms are a complete black box,
并且会带来附带损害
and there is collateral damage.
以积极分子伊亚德·巴格达的为例
Take, for example, Iyad el-Baghdadi,
他在推特上取笑伊斯兰国组织
an activist who makes fun of ISIS on Twitter.
取了和伊斯兰国有名头目同样的姓氏
He had his account deactivated,
就因此账号被注销
because he shares a surname with a prominent ISIS leader.
去年十二月
Last December,
许多叫做艾斯(Isis)的女性
a number of women named Isis,
因为刚好和埃及女神
which also happens to be
名字相同
the name of an Egyptian goddess,
账户也被注销了
had their accounts deactivated.
而这位女士
And this woman,
住在美国 是一名电脑程序员
who lives in the United States and is a computer programmer,
因为在推特上报道了自己的脸书账户被注销的事
reported on Twitter about her deactivation on Facebook,
成功得到足够的媒体关注
managed to get enough media attention
终于账户得到恢复
to have her account reinstated.
但这是多亏——她得到了媒体关注
But that’s the thing — she had to get media attention.
这样的事情新闻记者也不能幸免
And journalists aren’t immune.
大卫·汤普森
David Thomson,
恐怖主义研究专家和法国国际广播电台记者
an expert on terrorism and reporter for Radio France International,
也曾被迫删除脸书上发布的报道
had reports deleted from his Facebook account
账号也被封了几天
and had his account deactivated for several days,
而这仅仅是因为内容里出现了
because they contained
孟加拉国组织的旗帜
pictures of ISIS flags,
尽管内容只是关于孟加拉国新闻的报道
even though he was just reporting on ISIS,
而非宣扬该组织
not promoting it.
还有类似的例子 例如来自埃及的
And then we have stories from people like this Egyptian man,
艾哈迈德·阿布德拉先生
Ahmed Abdellahy,
被报道参加了华盛顿
who reported recently in an
最近一场活动
event in Washington DC
活动中他和极端分子有些争论——
that some of his arguments with extremists —
他现在一直致力于通过
he now spends his time
社交媒体与伊斯兰国追随者据理力争
on social media arguing with ISIS followers,
尽力让他们脱离组织——
trying to get them to turn away —
然而他与极端分子的一些言论被删除了
some of his arguments with these extremists get deleted,
他认为这成了一道屏障 使极端分子
which he believes has the effect of shielding them
不能听到来自其他角度的观点
from alternative points of view.
我们不能确定脸书和其他公司
It’s unclear whether Facebook even knows the extent
是否了解这么做会带来
of the collateral damage,
多大程度的附带损害
or the other companies as well.
但我们确定的是 新闻工作、激进主义和公众讨论
But we do know that journalism, activism and public debate
在努力压制极端主义言论 却反而被压制了
are being silenced in the effort to stamp out extremist speech.
既然这些公司的力量远强于公众话语权
So with these companies having so much power over the public discourse,
他们就必须为自己负责
they need to be held accountable.
必须评估可能带来的冲击
They need to carry out impact assessment
发现并解决造成的
to identify and fix the problems
我们清楚看到的问题
that we’re clearly seeing.
他们的执行机制须更加公开
They need to be more transparent about their enforcement mechanisms,
必须建立
and they need to have
明确的上诉和申诉机制
clear appeal and grievance mechanisms,
使人们有机会恢复被删除的内容
so people can get their content reinstated.
我花了十分钟的演讲时间
Now, I’ve been talking for the last 10 minutes
来讲政府和公司如何
about how governments and companies are making it more difficult
为难这些人
for people like these.
这张照片上的是来自公民媒体网络
This is a picture of members of the citizen media network,
以及全球之声的成员
Global Voices,
这两个组织是我十年前
that I helped to cofound over 10 years ago
和朋友伊桑·楚克曼一起创立的
with my friend, Ethan Zuckerman.
有趣的是
Interestingly,
大概五年前 也正是阿拉伯之春运动之后
about 5 years ago, right after the Arab Spring,
数据科学家吉拉德·卢坦
the data scientist Gilad Lotan
建立了一个网络地图
created a network map
里面有所有在“阿拉伯之春”期间
of the people in Global Voices
频繁使用推特的全球之声成员
who were heavy users of Twitter during the Arab Spring.
他发现 这些人中的大多数在突尼斯和埃及革命期间
And he found that many of these people served as key information nodes
都担任了沟通激进分子和新闻记者的
between activists and journalists
重要信息纽带
throughout the Tunisian and Egyptian revolution.
我们必须确保像这样的人不仅不会“灭绝”
We’ve got to make sure that these people not only survive,
队伍反而会越来越壮大
but are able to continue to thrive.
虽然有些人被打入监狱
Many of them are still active,
有些人被逼藏匿起来 或被流放
other than the ones who have gone to jail
但其他人还在积极努力
or have been driven into hiding or exile.
在世界各地,
All around the world,
饱尝并厌恶压迫和恐惧之苦
people who are sick and tired
的人们
of fear and oppression
正联合他们的社区
are linking up in their communities
并跨越国界携起手
and across borders.
我们必须采取一切行动来给政府和企业施压
We’ve got to do everything we can
敦促我们的政府和企业
to push our governments and companies
更好地保护这些人的权益
to do a better job of protecting their rights.
我们也要更加紧觉
We’ve also got to be more mindful
清楚我们的个人、政治
about how our own personal, political,
消费和商业选择
consumer and business choices
将如何影响世界范围内的这个群体
affect people like these around the world.
当然 如果你有看新闻
Also, if you follow the news,
你会很清楚 仅仅这样是不够的
it’s pretty clear that that alone isn’t going to be enough.
我们必须肩负起个人责任 加入——
We’ve got to take personal responsibility by joining —
或至少 积极地支持——
or at very least, actively supporting —
这些不断增加的个人和日益壮大的群体
the growing ecosystem of individuals and groups
这些来自世界各地 为争取社会公正
who are fighting for social justice,
坚持环境可持续
environmental sustainability,
提高政府公信力
government accountability,
保卫人权和新闻自由
human rights, freedom of the press
以及开放自由的网络环境
and a free and open internet,
而不断做斗争的人们
all around the world.
我相信最终
I believe that, ultimately,
我们能战胜
we can overcome
被数字技术武装的极端主义
the digitally empowered networks
谣言煽动和憎恨构成的网络
of extremism, demagoguery and hate.
但是…
But …
前提是 我们必须
we’ve got to do this by
真正让世界范围内更多的公民
really beefing up the global networks
加入到全球网络中
of citizens around the world,
这都要靠每天辛勤努力
powered by people who are working hard every day,
不惧承担个人风险的人来驱动
and taking personal risk
来争取更加和平公正 开放而自由的未来世界
for a future world that is more peaceful, just, open and free.
谢谢大家!
Thanks very much for listening.
(掌声)
(Applause)

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视频概述

要打击极端主义,必须保护言论自由,新闻媒体自由,创建开放的网络

听录译者

收集自网络

翻译译者

陈榆木

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与光同尘

视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v_GrrQs8ow

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