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This is your brain on communication | Uri Hasson

想象一下你发明了一个设备
Imagine that you invented a device
可以记录我的记忆、
that can record my memories,
我的梦想、我的想法
my dreams, my ideas,
并把它们传输到你的大脑里
and transmit them to your brain.
那将是改变世界的新科技 对吧?
That would be a game-changing technology, right?
但事实上 我们已经拥有了这样的设备
But in fact, we already possess this device,
它被称作"人类沟通系统"
and it’s called human communication system
和"有效的故事叙述"
and effective storytelling.
为理解这个设备的运作方式
To understand how this device works,
我们必须对大脑进行一番研究
we have to look into our brains.
并且稍稍改变提问的方向
And we have to formulate the question in a slightly different manner.
我们改问:
Now we have to ask
我大脑中那些
how these neuron patterns in my brain
与我的记忆和想法相关的神经元
that are associated with my memories and ideas
是如何被传输到你的大脑里的?
are transmitted into your brains.
我们认为 有两个因素促成沟通
And we think there are two factors that enable us to communicate.
首先 你的大脑在物理层面上
First, your brain is now physically coupled to the sound wave
与我正在传输的声波耦合
that I’m transmitting to your brain.
其次 我们有共通的神经通讯协定
And second, we developed a common neural protocol
使我们能够沟通
that enabled us to communicate.
那么 我们是如何知道的呢?
So how do we know that?
在我的普林斯顿实验室里
In my lab in Princeton,
我们对受测者进行 功能性核磁共振仪扫描
we bring people to the fMRI scanner and we scan their brains
就在他们讲述或聆听真实故事时 扫描他们的大脑
while they are either telling or listening to real-life stories.
为了让你们了解我们所使用的刺激物
And to give you a sense of the stimulus we are using,
我从一段故事中截取了20秒来播放
let me play 20 seconds from a story that we used,
这是来自一位 非常有才华的故事讲述者
told by a very talented storyteller,
名为 Jim O’Grady
Jim O’Grady.
[音频]Jim O’Grady:我现在要 大声说出我的故事 因为很好笑
(Audio) Jim O’Grady: So I’m banging out my story and I know it’s good,
然后为了让故事更生动
and then I start to make it better —
[笑声]
(Laughter)
我会稍微地添油加醋
by adding an element of embellishment.
记者们称之为“忽悠”
Reporters call this “making shit up.”
[笑声]
(Laughter)
他们建议不要越过那条线
And they recommend against crossing that line.
但我刚看见糕点飞过那条线
But I had just seen the line crossed between a high-powered dean
砸在院长大人的脸上
and assault with a pastry.
我还挺开心的
And I kinda liked it.”
尤里.哈森:好 现在我们来观察你的大脑
Uri Hasson: OK, so now let’s look into your brain
看看当你听这类故事时发生了什么
and see what’s happening when you listen to these kinds of stories.
一开始我们先简单点——从一位受测听众的大脑区域开始:
And let’s start simple — let’s start with one listener and one brain area:
处理耳朵听到的声音的 听觉大脑皮层
the auditory cortex that processes the sounds that come from the ear.
如你所见 这特定区域的脑波
And as you can see, in this particular brain area,
会随着故事的进展而上下波动
the responses are going up and down as the story is unfolding.
现在我们把这些反应
Now we can take these responses
和其他受测听众 同一大脑区域内的反应
and compare them to the responses in other listeners
进行比较
in the same brain area.
我们会问:
And we can ask:
所有受测听众的反应有多相似呢?
How similar are the responses across all listeners?
可以看到这五位受测者的脑波
So here you can see five listeners.
在故事展开前 我们就开始扫描他们的大脑
And we start to scan their brains before the story starts,
当时他们只是躺在黑暗中 等待故事开始
when they’re simply lying in the dark and waiting for the story to begin.
正如你们所见
As you can see,
他们每个人的大脑区域里都有起伏
the brain area is going up and down in each one of them,
但是反应却非常不同
but the responses are very different,
而且不同步
and not in sync.
然而 就在故事开始后
However, immediately as the story is starting,
一些神奇的事情发生了
something amazing is happening.
[音频] JO:我现在要 大声说出我的故事 因为很好笑
(Audio) JO: So I’m banging out my story and I know it’s good,
然后为了让故事更生动
and then I start to make it —
UH:突然间 所有人的脑波回应
UH: Suddenly, you can see that the responses in all of the subjects
都随着故事的进展
lock to the story,
而上上下下
and now they are going up and down in a very similar way
波型都很类似
across all listeners.
事实上 各位听我讲话的时候
And in fact, this is exactly what is happening now in your brains
这种现象也正在你的大脑里发生
when you listen to my sound speaking.
我们把这个效应称作 “神经振荡同步化”
We call this effect “neural entrainment.”
为了解释“神经振荡同步化”
And to explain to you what is neural entrainment,
我先来解释一下什么是“物理震荡同步化“
let me first explain what is physical entrainment.
我们来看看这 5 个节拍器
So, we’ll look and see five metronomes.
想象这5个节拍器是 5 个大脑
Think of these five metronomes as five brains.
和故事开始前的 5 位受测听众一样
And similar to the listeners before the story starts,
这五个节拍器会开始打拍子
these metronomes are going to click,
但并不同步
but they’re going to click out of phase.
[咔哒咔哒……]
(Clicking)
现在来看一下 当我把它们放在这两个圆筒上
Now see what will happen when I connect them together
把它们连起来 会发生什么
by placing them on these two cylinders.
[咔哒咔哒……]
(Clicking)
现在这两个圆筒开始滚动
Now these two cylinders start to rotate.
这种旋转振动贯穿整块木板
This rotation vibration is going through the wood
把所有节拍器同步在一起
and is going to couple all the metronomes together.
现在来听听咔哒声
And now listen to the click.
[同步的咔哒咔哒声……]
(Synchronized clicking)
这就是所谓的物理震盪同步化
This is what you call physical entrainment.
现在让我们回到大脑 问一个问题:
Now let’s go back to the brain and ask:
是什么在驱动神经振荡同步化?
What’s driving this neural entrainment?
是说话者发出的声音?
Is it simply the sounds that the speaker is producing?
还是所说的字彙?
Or maybe it’s the words.
还是说话者试图传达的意思?
Or maybe it’s the meaning that the speaker is trying to convey.
为了测试 我们做了以下实验
So to test it, we did the following experiment.
首先 我们倒退播放这个故事
First, we took the story and played it backwards.
这保留了很多原有的听觉特征
And that preserved many of the original auditory features,
但失去了含义
but removed the meaning.
听起来就像是这样:
And it sounds something like that.
[音频]JO:(不知所云)
(Audio) JO: (Unintelligible)
我们在两个大脑裡 用闪现的颜色
And we flashed colors in the two brains
来标示受测者间 相似脑区块的回应
to indicate brain areas that respond very similarly across people.
正如你们所见
And as you can see,
诱使所有受测者大脑内处理声音的听觉皮层
this incoming sound induced entrainment or alignment in all of the brains
全都同步了
in auditory cortices that process the sounds,
但没有扩散到大脑深层区域
but it didn’t spread deeper into the brain.
现在 我们用这些声音来构建文字
Now we can take these sounds and build words out of it.
如果我们用 Jim O’Grady 的声音 把文字胡乱拼凑在一起
So if we take Jim O’Grady and scramble the words,
我们会得到一系列文字
we’ll get a list of words.
[音频]JO: …… 一只动物……. 各种各样的事实
(Audio) JO: … an animal … assorted facts …
正在……卖馅饼的人…… 可能……我的故事
and right on … pie man … potentially … my stories
UH:你可以看到这些文字 开始引起
UH: And you can see that these words start to induce alignment
早期语言区域的校准 但也仅仅如此
in early language areas, but not more than that.
现在 我们可以使用文字来组建句子
Now we can take the words and start to build sentences out of them.
[吉姆·雷迪的声音] 他们建议不要逾越那条线
(Audio) JO: And they recommend against crossing that line.
他说:“亲爱的 Jim 故事不错 细节很棒
He says: “Dear Jim, Good story. Nice details.
难道她不是通过我才认识他的吗?“
Didn’t she only know about him through me?”
UH:现在你可以看到 在所有受测者中
UH: Now you can see that the responses in all the language areas
在处理输入语言的所有语言区域
that process the incoming language
他们的反应变得整齐或相似
become aligned or similar across all listeners.
然而 只有当我们使用完整、动人、连贯的故事时
However, only when we use the full, engaging, coherent story
反应才会进入大脑深层区域
do the responses spread deeper into the brain
和高阶区域
into higher-order areas,
其中包括额叶皮层和顶叶皮层
which include the frontal cortex and the parietal cortex,
从而令所有人 都出现非常相似的反应
and make all of them respond very similarly.
我们认为 这些高阶区域内的反应 之所以能被诱发
And we believe that these responses in higher-order areas are induced
或能在不同受测听众之间变得相似
or become similar across listeners
是因为讲话者所传达的含义
because of the meaning conveyed by the speaker,
而不是文字或声音
and not by words or sound.
如果我们猜想正确 那就有一种很可能出现的情况
And if we are right, there’s a strong prediction over here
如果我使用两种 截然不同的语言组合
if I tell you the exact same ideas
告诉你同样的想法
using two very different sets of words,
你的大脑反应仍然是相似的
your brain responses will still be similar.
为了检验这种情况 我们在我的实验室里做了以下实验
And to test it, we did the following experiment in my lab.
我们把这个英语故事
We took the English story
翻译成俄语
and translated it to Russian.
现在有了两种不同的 声音和语言系统
Now you have two different sounds and linguistic systems
它们传达的意思则完全相同
that convey the exact same meaning.
你向英语听众播放英语故事
And you play the English story to the English listeners
向俄语听众播放俄语故事
and the Russian story to the Russian listeners,
我们比较这两组听众的反应
and we can compare their responses across the groups.
当这样做的时候 我们没有在听觉皮层
And when we did that, we didn’t see responses that are similar
看到相似的反应
in auditory cortices in language,
因为语言和声音差异很大
because the language and sound are very different.
但是 两组的高阶区域 的反应仍然相似
However, you can see that the responses in high-order areas
我们认为 这是因为 他们理解故事的方式非常相似
were still similar across these two groups.
故事结束后的一个测试
We believe this is because they understood the story in a very similar way,
验证了我们的想法
as we confirmed, using a test after the story ended.
我们认为 这种校准对于沟通是必要的
And we think that this alignment is necessary for communication.
举个例子 你们都听得出来
For example, as you can tell,
英语并不是我的母语
I am not a native English speaker.
我在另一种语言中成长
I grew up with another language,
你们当中很多人可能也是如此
and the same might be for many of you in the audience.
但我们依然可以沟通
And still, we can communicate.
为什么?
How come?
我们认为 我们之所以能沟通 是因为我们有这种
We think we can communicate because we have this common code
呈现含义的通用代码
that presents meaning.
到目前为止 我只谈到听众大脑中 所发生的情形
So far, I’ve only talked about what’s happening in the listener’s brain,
当你聆听的时候 你的大脑中所发生的情形
in your brain, when you’re listening to talks.
但演讲者的大脑中发生了什么?
But what’s happening in the speaker’s brain, in my brain,
当我对你们说话的时候 我的大脑中发生了什么?
when I’m speaking to you?
为了观察演讲者的大脑
To look in the speaker’s brain,
我们让演讲者接受扫描
we asked the speaker to go into the scanner,
我们扫描了他的大脑
we scan his brain
然后把他的大脑反应 和听众听故事时的大脑反应
and then compare his brain responses to the brain responses of the listeners
进行比较
listening to the story.
你们要记住 发表演讲和理解演讲
You have to remember that producing speech and comprehending speech
是截然不同的过程
are very different processes.
我们问的是:它们有多相似?
Here we’re asking: How similar are they?
令我们惊讶的是
To our surprise,
我们看到 受测听众之间 产生的所有这些复杂模式
we saw that all these complex patterns within the listeners
实际上都源自演讲者的大脑
actually came from the speaker brain.
所以 产出和理解 所倚赖的过程非常相似
So production and comprehension rely on very similar processes.
我们还发现
And we also found
受测者大脑和讲者大脑之间的
the stronger the similarity between the listener’s brain
相似度越高
and the speaker’s brain,
沟通效果越佳
the better the communication.
所以我知道 如果你们 现在完全听不懂我的话
So I know that if you are completely confused now,
我希望不会出现这种情况
and I do hope that this is not the case,
你们的大脑反应 就会与我的非常不同
your brain responses are very different than mine.
但我也知道 如果你们现在真的理解我的话
But I also know that if you really understand me now,
你的大脑 你的大脑 还有你的大脑
then your brain … and your brain … and your brain
就会与我的非常相似
are really similar to mine.
现在 我们把所有信息 结合起来 问一个问题:
Now, let’s take all this information together and ask:
我们该如何利用它
How can we use it to transmit a memory that I have
把我大脑中的记忆 传递到你们的大脑中?
from my brain to your brains?
于是我们做了以下实验
So we did the following experiment.
我们让人们首次观看BBC 连续剧 《神探夏洛克》中的一个片段
We let people watch, for the first time in their life,
同时扫描他们的大脑
a TV episode from the BBC series “Sherlock,” while we scanned their brains.
然后我们让他们回到扫描仪前
And then we asked them to go back to the scanner
把故事讲给另一个 从没看过这部电影的人听
and tell the story to another person that never watched the movie.
具体来说
So let’s be specific.
想象这个特定的场景
Think about this exact scene,
夏洛克进入伦敦的一辆出租车
when Sherlock is entering the cab in London
司机是他正在寻找的杀人凶手
driven by the murderer he is looking for.
对我而言 作为一名观看者
With me, as a viewer,
当我看的时候 我的大脑中有一个特定的大脑模式
there is a specific brain pattern in my brain when I watch it.
现在 通过讲述以下几个词语 我可以再次在大脑中重新激活
Now, the exact same pattern, I can reactivate in my brain again
这个完全相同的模式: 夏洛克、伦敦、杀人凶手
by telling the word: Sherlock, London, murderer.
当我现在把这些词语传达到你的大脑时
And when I’m transmitting these words to your brains now,
你得在自己的思维中进行重建
you have to reconstruct it in your mind.
实际上 我们能看到你们的大脑中 现在出现的模式
In fact, we see that pattern emerging now in your brains.
我们非常惊讶地看到
And we were really surprised to see
当我向你描述这些场景的时候
that the pattern you have now in your brains
你的大脑中现在呈现的模式
when I’m describing to you these scenes
与我几个月前看这部电影时
would be very similar to the pattern I had when I watched this movie
扫描仪中显现的我的大脑模式 非常相似
a few months ago in the scanner.
这开始告诉你们 我们讲故事和传递信息
This starts to tell you about the mechanism
所倚赖的机制
by which we can tell stories and transmit information.
因为 举个例子来说
Because, for example,
现在你们听得非常努力 尝试理解我所说的话
now you’re listening really hard and trying to understand what I’m saying.
我知道这并不容易
And I know that it’s not easy.
但我希望 到了对话中的某个时刻 我们能豁然开朗 你们能明白我的意思
But I hope that at one point in the talk we clicked, and you got me.
我觉得 在几个小时后 几天后 几个月后
And I think that in a few hours, a few days, a few months,
当你们在派对上遇到某个人
you’re going to meet someone at a party,
你会告诉他这次演讲的内容
and you’re going to tell him about this lecture,
突然间 他好像就站在这里 和我们在一起
and suddenly it will be as if he is standing now here with us.
现在你们可以看到 我们如何利用这个机制
Now you can see how we can take this mechanism
尝试在人与人之间传递记忆和知识
and try to transmit memories and knowledge across people,
这很不错 对吧?
which is wonderful, right?
但我们的沟通能力
But our ability to communicate relies on our ability
依赖于我们拥有共同点的能力
to have common ground.
因为 举例来说
Because, for example,
如果我使用英式同义词
if I’m going to use the British synonym
“出租马车” 取代 “出租汽车”
“hackney carriage” instead of “cab,”
我知道 大多数听众就无法 与我达成同步的沟通
I know that I’m going to be misaligned with most of you in the audience.
沟通的同步不仅取决于
This alignment depends not only on our ability
我们对基本概念的理解能力
to understand the basic concept;
也取决于我们形成共性、理解彼此
it also depends on our ability to develop common ground and understanding
和共享信仰体系的能力
and shared belief systems.
因为我们知道 在许多情况下
Because we know that in many cases,
即使是完全相同的故事 人们的理解方式也可能十分不同
people understand the exact same story in very different ways.
为了在实验室中验证 我们做了以下实验
So to test it in the lab, we did the following experiment.
我们采用了 J.D. Salinger 的一个故事
We took a story by J.D. Salinger,
在这个故事中 一位丈夫在派对中与妻子失去了联络
in which a husband lost track of his wife in the middle of a party,
他打电话给最好的朋友 问他: “你看见我妻子了吗?“
and he’s calling his best friend, asking, “Did you see my wife?”
半数的受测者被告知:
For half of the subjects,
妻子和最好的朋友有一段私情
we said that the wife was having an affair with the best friend.
而另外一半则被告知:
For the other half,
妻子是忠诚的 是丈夫的忌妒心太重
we said that the wife is loyal and the husband is very jealous.
故事开始前的一句话
This one sentence before the story started
就足以决定大脑的反应
was enough to make the brain responses
所有相信妻子不忠的人
of all the people that believed the wife was having an affair
在大脑高阶区域 出现非常相似的反应
be very similar in these high-order areas
但与另一组人不同
and different than the other group.
如果一个句子足以让你的大脑
And if one sentence is enough to make your brain similar
与持相同看法的人相似
to people that think like you
与持不同看法的人相异
and very different than people that think differently than you,
那么想想看 在现实生活中 这种效应会被放大到什么样的程度?
think how this effect is going to be amplified in real life,
当我们日复一日听着由不同媒体
when we are all listening to the exact same news item
所报导的相同新闻
after being exposed day after day after day
例如《福克斯新闻》或《纽约时报》
to different media channels, like Fox News or The New York Times,
造成我们对事实的观点 有截然不同的看法
that give us very different perspectives on reality.
我来总结一下
So let me summarize.
如果一切事情都像今晚 计划的那样进行
If everything worked as planned tonight,
我可以用我的声音 与你的大脑产生共鸣
I used my ability to vocalize sound to be coupled to your brains.
然后利用这种共鸣
And I used this coupling
把我的大脑模式、记忆和想法
to transmit my brain patterns associated with my memories and ideas
传输到你的大脑
into your brains.
由此 我开始揭示沟通所依赖的
In this, I start to reveal the hidden neural mechanism
隐藏神经机制
by which we communicate.
我们知道 在未来 它会使我们改进
And we know that in the future it will enable us to improve
和加速沟通
and facilitate communication.
但这些研究也表明
But these studies also reveal
沟通依赖于共同基础
that communication relies on a common ground.
我们必须得担心 作为一个社会
And we have to be really worried as a society
我们是否失去了这种共同基础
if we lose this common ground and our ability to speak with people
是否失去了与那些 与自己稍有不同的人沟通的能力
that are slightly different than us
因为我们放任少数的强势媒体
because we let a few very strong media channels
控制了麦克风
take control of the mic,
操纵了我们的想法
and manipulate and control the way we all think.
我只是个科学家 不知如何解决这个问题
And I’m not sure how to fix it because I’m only a scientist.
但或许有一种可能方式
But maybe one way to do it
就是回到更自然的沟通方式
is to go back to the more natural way of communication,
也就是人与人之间的对话
which is a dialogue,
不只是像现在这样我对着你说
in which it’s not only me speaking to you now,
而是更自然的谈话方式
but a more natural way of talking,
我一边说也一边听
in which I am speaking and I am listening,
我们一起努力 获得共同点和新想法
and together we are trying to come to a common ground and new ideas.
因为 毕竟
Because after all,
能与我们产生共鸣的人 定义了我们是什麽样的人
the people we are coupled to define who we are.
我们对另一个大脑 产生共鸣的基本渴望
And our desire to be coupled to another brain
在年龄很小的时候就已经开始了
is something very basic that starts at a very early age.
最后 我用自己生活中的 一个例子作为结束
So let me finish with an example from my own private life
我觉得这是一个很好的例子
that I think is a good example of how coupling to other people
说明了与他人的“共鸣”如何定义我们是谁
is really going to define who we are.
这是我儿子 Jonathan 在他很小的时候
This my son Jonathan at a very early age.
看看他如何和我妻子 一起开发出一种声音游戏
See how he developed a vocal game together with my wife,
仅仅源自渴望与他人 产生共鸣的单纯喜悦
only from the desire and pure joy of being coupled to another human being.
[都在发声]
(Both vocalizing)
[笑声]
(Laughter)
现在来想一想 我儿子与我们
Now, think how the ability of my son
以及他生命中其他人产生共鸣的能力
to be coupled to us and other people in his life
将如何把他塑造成他将成为的那个人
is going to shape the man he is going to become.
想一想 你每天如何
And think how you change on a daily basis
从与他人的交往和联系中改变
from the interaction and coupling to other people in your life.
所以持续跟其他人产生共鸣
So keep being coupled to other people.
持续分享你的想法
Keep spreading your ideas,
因为我们共鸣起来的总力量
because the sum of all of us together, coupled,
远远胜过我们分开的个体力量
is greater than our parts.
谢谢
Thank you.
[掌声]
(Applause)

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视频概述

演讲者Uri·Hasson通过观察人的大脑在听到声音时不同的变化做出研究,得出在不同的语言背景下大脑接收相同意思的信息呈现相似的现象。同时,说话者与聆听者在共同点的驱动下,大脑活动也会出现相似的情况。最后演讲者鼓励观众保持与人联系,从中找到我们是谁的定义。

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审核员

joker

视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDhlOovaGrI

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