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互联网上那些侵袭儿童心智的视频

The nightmare videos of childrens' YouTube — and what's wrong with the internet today | James Bridle

我是詹姆斯
I’m James.
是一个作家兼艺术家
I’m a writer and artist,
我从事有关技术方面的工作
and I make work about technology.
我做的事情 比如
I do things like
在世界各地的城市街道上
draw life-size outlines of military drones
绘制军用无人机的真实尺寸轮廓
in city streets around the world,
这样人们可以开始思考
so that people can start to think
并去了解
and get their heads around
这些真的很难看到
these really quite hard-to-see
而且很难想象的科技
and hard-to-think-about technologies.
我做诸如人工神经网络之类的东西
I make things like neural networks
它可以根据天气预报
that predict the results of elections
预测投票结果
based on weather reports,
因为我非常好奇
because I’m intrigued about
这些怪异的新科技 其实际可能性是什么
what the actual possibilities of these weird new technologies are.
去年 我为自己制造了一辆自动驾驶汽车
Last year, I built my own self-driving car.
但因为我不太相信科技
But because I don’t really trust technology,
我还给它设计了一个“陷阱”
I also designed a trap for it.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
而且我做这些事情 主要是因为
And I do these things mostly
我发现它们非常吸引人
because I find them completely fascinating,
而且还因为我觉得
but also because I think
在我们谈论科技的时候
when talk about technology,
我们大部分谈的 都是我们自己
we’re largely talking about ourselves
和我们理解这个世界的方式
and the way that we understand the world.
所以 这是一个关于科技的故事
So here’s a story about technology.
这是一个“惊喜蛋”视频
This is a”surprise egg” video.
这个视频基本上就是 有个人
It’s basically a video of someone
打开好多巧克力蛋
opening up loads of chocolate eggs
然后把里面的小玩具展示给观众
and showing the toys inside to the viewer.
就是那样
That’s it.
那就是整整七分钟播放的全部内容
That’s all it does for seven long minutes.
关于这问题 我希望大家注意两件事
And I want you to notice two things about this.
首先 这个视频被观看了3000万次
First of all, this video has 30 million views.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
另一件事就是
And the other thing is,
它来自一个有630万订阅者的频道
it comes from a channel that has 6.3 million subscribers,
这个频道总共有80亿的浏览量
that has a total of eight billion views,
而且大多视频都是这样的——
and it’s all just more videos like this —
3000万人观看一个人打开这些惊喜蛋
30 million people watching a guyopening up these eggs.
听上去太奇怪了
It sounds pretty weird,
但如果你在YouTube上搜索“惊喜蛋”
but if you searchfor”surprise eggs” on YouTube,
它会告诉你 有1000万这样的视频
it’ll tell you there’s 10 million of these videos,
我觉得少算了
and I think that’s an undercount.
实际数字要比这些多得多
I think there’s way, way more of these.
如果你继续搜索 结果不可胜数
If you keep searching, they’re endless.
有数百万计这样的视频
There’s millions and millions of these videos
由不同类型及资料 组成越来越多的天花乱坠的组合
in increasingly baroque combinationsof brands and materials,
而且每天还有越来越多这样的视频
and there’s more and more of them
被传到网上
being uploaded every single day.
这是个奇怪的世界 对吧?
Like, this is a strange world. Right?
但问题是
But the thing is,
观看这些视频的人并不是成年人
it’s not adults who are watching these videos.
而是孩子 小孩子们
It’s kids, small children.
这些视频对小孩子来说就像毒品
These videos are like crack for little kids.
这种重复 是有问题的
There’s something about the repetition,
它就像持续注射小剂量多巴酚一样
the constant little dopamine hit of the reveal,
完全把他们吸引住了
that completely hooks them in.
孩子们一遍又一遍地
And little kids watch these videos
观看这些视频
over and over and over again,
一看就要好几小时
and they do it for hours and hours and hours.
如果你不让他们看
And if you try and take the screen away from them,
他们会不停地大喊大叫
they’ll scream and scream and scream.
你要不相信的话
If you don’t believe me —
我已经看见好多观众在点头了
and I’ve already seen people in the audience nodding —
如果你不相信的话
if you don’t believe me,
找有孩子的人问问
find someone with small children and ask them,
他们都知道惊喜蛋的视频
and they’ll know about the surprise egg videos.
所以 我们就从这开始讲讲
So this is where we start.
今年是2018年
It’s 2018,
有些人 或者说有好多人
and someone, or lots of people,
都在使用同样的
are using the same mechanism that,
例如Facebook 和Instagram使用的
like Facebook and Instagram are using
使你不停地查看它们的应用的那种方法
to get you to keep checking that app,
而且他们现在把它用在YouTube上
and they’re using it on YouTube
入侵小孩子们的大脑
to hack the brains of very small children
以换取广告收入
in return for advertising revenue.
至少 我希望那是他们正在做的
At least, I hope that’s what they’re doing.
我希望那就是他们这么做的目的
I hope that’s what they’re doing it for,
因为在YouTube上
because there’s easier ways
还有更简单的方式赚取广告收入
of making ad revenue on YouTube.
你可以胡编乱造 或偷取别人的创作
You can just make stuff up or steal stuff.
如果你搜索 《小猪佩奇》或
So if you search for like, really popular kids’ cartoons
《汪汪队立大功》这样非常受欢迎的儿童卡通
like”Peppa Pig” or”Paw Patrol,”
你会发现也有数百万计的在线视频
you’ll find there’s millions and millionsof these online as well.
当然 大多数都不是由原创发布的
Of course, most of them aren’t posted by the original content creators.
它们来自许许多多不同的随机账户
They come from loads and loadsof different random accounts,
而且也不可能知道谁发布的
and it’s impossible to knowwho’s posting them
也不知道他们的动机会是什么
or what their motives might be.
听上去耳熟吗?
Does that sound kind of familiar?
因为它与遍及我们绝大部份
Because it’s exactly the same mechanism
数字服务的方法完全相同
that’s happening across most of our digital services,
根本无法知道
where it’s impossible to know
这些信息的来源
where this information is coming from.
它基本上就是针对孩子们的假消息
It’s basically fake news for kids,
我们从孩子们一出生 就开始训练他们
and we’re training them from birth
点击第一个出现的链接
to click on the very first linkthat comes along,
无论消息来源是什么
regardless of what the source is.
这似乎不是一个太好的主意
That’s doesn’t seem like a terribly good idea.
这还有另一个
Here’s another thing
在儿童YouTube上影响很大的视频
that’s really big on kids’ YouTube.
叫《手指家庭之歌》
This is called the”Finger Family Song.”
我又听到有观众在抱怨了
Again, I just heard someone groan in the audience.
这就是《手指家庭之歌》
This is the”Finger Family Song.”
这是我能找到的最早发布的视频
This is the very first one I could find.
出自2007年
It’s from 2007,
只有20万次的浏览量
and it only has 200,000 views,
在这行业中 这个浏览量不算什么
which is, like, nothing in this game.
但它有这种疯狂的脑残调
But it has this insanely earwormy tune,
我不会放给你们听
which I’m not going to play to you,
因为它会像深烙在我的脑海中一样
because it will sear itself into your brain
也深深烙在你的大脑里
in the same way that it seared itself into mine,
我不会那样对待你们的
and I’m not going to do that to you.
但它就像惊喜蛋的视频
But like the surprise eggs,
印在孩子们的脑海里
like it’s got inside kids’ heads
就好像对它有瘾一样
and like addicted them to it.
所以在几年之内
So within a few years,
这些《手指家庭之歌》的视频
these finger family videos
开始铺天盖地
start appearing everywhere,
被做成不同语言版本的儿童流行卡通片
and you get versions in different languages
把歌词改编成以食物为内容
with popular kids’ cartoons using food or,
或坦率地说 把你似乎随处可见的
frankly, using whatever kindof animation elements
所有动画素材 都用上了
you seem to have lying around.
再强调一下
And once again,
网上有数百万计
there are millions and millions
这样的视频
and millions of these videos available online
全是这种疯狂的混合物
in all of these kind of insane combinations.
而且你观看它们的时间越长
And the more time you start to spend with them,
你会觉得自己可能越来越疯狂
the crazier and crazier you start to feel that you might be.
我就是从这开始
And that’s where I kind of launched into this,
有种强烈的陌生感
that feeling of deep strangeness
而且非常不理解
and deep lack of understanding
这种出现在我周围的东西
of how this thing was constructed
是如何被构建出来的
that seems to be presented around me.
因为我们不可能知道
Because it’s impossible to know
这些东西是从哪里来的
where these things are coming from.
比如它们是谁制作的
like who is making them?
有些看似出自
Some of them appear to be made of
专业动画制作团队之手
teams of professional animators.
有些只是随意用软件制作的
Some of them are just randomlyassembled by software.
有些出自非常有益身心的儿童节目艺人
Some of them are quite wholesome-lookingyoung kids’ entertainers.
还有一些出自
And some of them are from people
根本不应该出现在孩子身边的人
who really clearly shouldn’t be around children at all.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
而且 再说一遍
And, once again,
这种不可能搞清楚
this impossibility of figuring out
谁在制作这种东西的情况
who’s making this stuff —
比如 是机器人吗?
like, this is a bot?
是真人吗?是网络巨魔吗?
Is this a person? Is this a troll?
我们分辨不出这些东西之间的区别了
What does it meanthat we can’t tell the difference
这意味着什么呢?
between these things anymore?
而且 这种不确定性
And again, doesn’t that uncertainty
不觉得有点熟悉吗?
feel kind of familiar right now?
所以 获得视频浏览量的主要方式 —-
So the main way people get viewson their videos —
记住 浏览量意味着收入 ——
and remember, views mean money —
就是用这些流行词语
is that they stuff the titles of these videos
填充这些视频的标题
with these popular terms.
比如 选“惊喜蛋”
So you take, like,”surprise eggs”
然后加上“ 汪汪队立大功” “复活蛋”
and then you add”Paw Patrol,” “Easter egg,”
或无论这类的关键词是什么
or whatever these things are,
把所有这些来自其他热门视频的词汇加到你的标题里
all of these words from other popular videos into your title,
直到最后变成这种
until you end up with this kind
对人类根本毫无意义
of meaningless mash of language
毫无价值的烂语言
that doesn’t make sense to humans at all.
当然了 因为观看这些视频的人
Because of course it’s only like
只是年幼的孩子们
really tiny kids who are watching your video,
他们懂什么呢?
and what the hell do they know?
这些东西真正的观众是软件
Your real audience for this stuff is software.
它是计算机算法
It’s the algorithms.
是YouTube的软件 用来选择
It’s the software that YouTube uses to select
哪些视频是类似的
which videos are like other videos,
以使其受欢迎并受到推荐
to make them popular,to make them recommended.
这就是为什么最终看到的
And that’s why you end up with
都是这种完全没有意义的东西
this kind of completely meaningless mash,
标题和内容都是如此
both of title and of content.
但问题是 你得记住
But the thing is, you have to remember,
在这个被算法优化的系统中 其实还是有人
there really are still people within this algorithmically optimized system,
被迫对这些越来越怪异的混搭词
people who are kindof increasingly forced to act out
不断地作出反应
these increasingly bizarrecombinations of words,
就像一个不顾一切的即兴艺术家
like a desperate improvisation artist
同时要回应百万幼儿
responding to the combined screams
嘈杂的尖叫声一样
of a million toddlers at once.
有真实的人被困在这些系统之中
There are real peopletrapped within these systems,
而且这就是在算法驱动下的文化里
and that’s the other deeply strange thing
另一件非常奇怪的事
about this algorithmically driven culture,
因为即使你是人类
because even if you’re human,
也必须表现得像机器
you have to end up behaving like a machine
才能生存
just to survive.
而且在屏幕的另一端
And also, on the other side of the screen,
还有这些孩子们观看这些东西 不能自拔
there still are these little kidswatching this stuff, stuck,
他们全部的注意力
their full attention grabbed
都被这些奇怪的机制所吸引
by these weird mechanisms.
并且绝大多数的孩子都太小 不会上网
And most of these kids are too small to even use a website.
他们只是用小手在屏幕上乱敲
They’re just kind of hammering on the screen with their little hands.
而且它有自动播放功能
And so there’s autoplay,
只是一遍又一遍地循环
where it just keeps playing these videos
无休止地播放这些视频
over and over and over in a loop,
一看就是几个小时
endlessly for hours and hours at a time.
并且现在系统中有如此多的奇怪之处
And there’s so much weirdnessin the system now
自动播放 会把带你到一些非常奇怪的地方
that autoplay takes youto some pretty strange places.
这就好像在十几步之内
This is how, within a dozen steps,
就可以把你从可爱的算数小火车的视频
you can go from a cute videoof a counting train
带到正在自慰的米老鼠的视频
to masturbating Mickey Mouse.
是的 我很抱歉那样说话
Yeah, I’m sorry about that.
但这确实能变得更糟
This does get worse.
当所有这些不同的关键词
This is what happens when all of these different keywords,
所有这些不同类型的关注部分
all these different kind of pieces of attention,
还有这种毫无顾忌的内容的产生
this desperate generation of content,
都汇集到一处时 就会发生这种情况
all comes together into a single place.
这就是所有那些怪异的关键词起反作用的地方
This is where all those deeply weird keywords come home to roost.
你把“手指家庭之歌”的视频
You cross-breed the finger family video
与一些超级英雄真人秀的东西交织在一起
with some live-action superhero stuff,
添加一些奇怪的 恶搞的笑话或其他什么东西
you add in some weird,trollish in-jokes or something,
然后突然间 你当然会来到一个非常怪异的地方
and suddenly, you cometo a very weird place indeed.
让父母感到不安的
The stuff that tends to upset parents
是那些有暴力或色情内容的东西 对吗?
is the stuff that has kind of violent or sexual content, right?
儿童的卡通遭到侵袭 遭到扼杀
Children’s cartoons getting assaulted, getting killed,
真正让孩子们感到害怕的是怪异的恶作剧
weird pranks that actually genuinely terrify children.
你有的只是软件
What you have is software pulling
它汇集所有这些影响
in all of these different influences
自动生成孩子们最可怕的噩梦
to automatically generatekids’ worst nightmares.
这个东西的的确确会影响小孩子
And this stuff really, reallydoes affect small children.
父母们说他们的孩子受到精神创伤
Parents report their childrenbeing traumatized,
变得害怕黑暗 变得害怕他们喜爱的卡通人物
becoming afraid of the dark, becoming afraid of their favorite cartoon characters.
如果要减少刚提及的一种坏影响
If you take one thing away from this,
那就是 如果你有小孩的话
it’s that if you have small children,
让他们远离YouTube
keep them the hell away from YouTube.
(掌声)
(Applause)
但另外一件事情
But the other thing,
真正让我烦恼的是
the thing that really gets to me about this,
我不知道大家是否真正理解
is that I’m not sure we even
我们是怎样到这地步的
really understand how we got to this point.
我们接受了所有这些影响 所有这些东西
We’ve taken all of this influence,all of these things,
在并非有人故意想这样做的情况下
and munged them together in a way
将它们融合在一起
that no one really intended.
而且我们整个世界
And yet, this is also the way
就是以这种方式建立的
that we’re building the entire world.
我们用所有这些数据
We’re taking all of this data,
其中很多都是不好的
a lot of it bad data, a
很多充满了偏见的历史数据
lot of historical data full of prejudice,
充满了最糟糕的历史冲动的数据
full of all of our worst impulses of history,
然后把它们构成庞大的数据集
and we’re building that into huge data sets
将其自动化
and then we’re automating it.
然后再把它们合在一起
And we’re munging it together
变成诚信报告
into things like credit reports,
保险费用
into insurance premiums,
预测警务系统
into things like predictive policing systems,
和量刑指导方针之类的东西
into sentencing guidelines.
这就是如今我们用这些数据
This is the way we’re actually constructing
实际构建这个世界的方式
the world today out of this data.
我不知道以下哪种情况更糟糕
And I don’t know what’s worse,
是我们为人类各方面最差的行为
that we built a system that seems to be entirely optimized
建立了一个似乎完全优化的系统呢
for the absolute worst aspectsof human behavior,
还是因为我们并不真正了解
or that we seem to have done it by accident,
正在建立的这些系统
without even realizingthat we were doing it,
也并不了解怎样使其
because we didn’t really understand
以不同的方式做任何事情
the systems that we were building,
就意外地
and we didn’t really understand
在没有意识到的情况下这么做了
how to do anything differently with it.
我觉得在YouTube上
There’s a couple of things
有几件事似乎真的
I think that really seem to be driving this
在全力推动这一点
most fully on YouTube,
第一就是广告
and the first of those is advertising,
它把人们的关注 金钱化
which is the monetization of attention
没有任何真正的其他变量在起作用
without any real other variables at work,
也不在乎那些实际上开发这种内容的人
any care for the people who areactually developing this content,
没有权力的集中
the centralization of the power,
对那些事也没有区分
the separation of those things.
我认为 不管你有多么觉得
And I think however you feel about
广告的使用在支持什么东西
the use of advertising to kind of support stuff,
但看到成年男子穿着尿裤
the sight of grown men in diapers
在沙滩上滚来滚去
rolling around in the sand
希望着他们并不懂的算法
in the hope that an algorithmthat they don’t really understand
会为此给他们钱
will give them money for it
这说明 这也许不应该是
suggests that this probably isn’t the thing
以我们社会和文化为基础的事
that we should be basingour society and culture upon,
也不应该是我们为其提供资金的方式
and the way in which we should be funding it.
另一个主要驱动因素
And the other thing that’s kind of the major driver
就是自动化
of this is automation,
它一问世就是所有这些科技的调度
which is the deploymentof all of this technology as soon as it arrives,
没有任何监管
without any kind of oversight,
然后一旦它在那里
and then once it’s out there,
就像我们一撒手 锅一甩
kind of throwing up our hands
说着 “嘿 不是我们 那是科技“
and going,”Hey, it’s not us, it’s the technology.”
就像 “这和我们没关系”
Like,”We’re not involved in it.”
但那还不够有说服力
That’s not really good enough,
因为这些东西在算法上不仅受管理
because this stuff isn’t just algorithmically governed,
而且还受到监察
it’s also algorithmically policed.
YouTube刚开始注意到这点时
When YouTube first started to pay attention to this,
第一件事说的就是
the first thing they said they’d do about it
他们要部署更好的机器学习算法
was that they’d deploybetter machine learning algorithms
来调整内容
to moderate the content.
就像这领域中的任何专家都会告诉你的那样
Well, machine learning,as any expert in it will tell you,
机器学习 基本上就是我们最早称之为软件的东西
is basically what we’ve started to call software
我们不太清楚它的工作原理
that we don’t really understand how it works.
可我觉得 我们已经受够那些软件了
And I think we have enough of that already.
我们不应该把这些东西留给Al来决定
We shouldn’t be leavingthis stuff up to AI to decide
什么是合适的
what’s appropriate or not,
因为我们知道那会发生什么
because we know what happens.
它会开始审查其他东西
It’ll start censoring other things.
开始审查古怪的内容
It’ll start censoring queer content.
开始审查合理的公开演讲
It’ll start censoringlegitimate public speech.
在这些话语中允许的内容
What’s allowed in these kind of discourses,
不应该是由这些
it shouldn’t be something
不负责任的系统来决定的
that’s left up to unaccountable systems.
这是我们所有人都应参与的部分讨论
It’s part of a discussion all of us should be having.
但我要提醒一下
But I’d leave a reminder
替代方案也并非就那么令人愉快
that the alternative isn’t very pleasant, either.
YouTube最近还宣布
YouTube also announced recently
他们将发布一款儿童版本的应用
that they’re going to release a version of their kids’ app
其内容完全由人工调控
that would be entirelymoderated by humans.
Facebook的扎克伯格在国会上
Facebook — Zuckerberg saidmuch the same thing at Congress,
迫于压力 针对他们如何调整其软件的问题 回答几乎相同
when pressed about how theywere going to moderate their stuff.
他说他们会由人工来做这件事
He said they’d have humans doing it.
其实真正的意思就是
And what that really means
在孩子们
is that instead of having toddlers
看到这些东西之前
being the first person to see this stuff,
让那些已经深受其害
you’re going to have underpaid,precarious contract workers
未经正规的心理健康辅导
without proper mental health support
薪水过低又朝不保夕的合同工们先审查一遍
being damaged by it as well.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
我觉得我们谁都能比那做得更好
And I think we can all do quite a lot better than that.
(笑声)
(Applause)
我觉得对我而言
The thought, I think,
把那两个问题合并到一起 其实就是
that brings those two things together, really, for me,
代理的问题
is agency.
就像是 我们通过代理真正能
It’s like, how much do we really understand —
理解多少 – 我是说
by agency, I mean:
我们怎么知道如何去采取行动呢 对吧
how we know how to act in our own best interests.
为了我们自己的最大利益
Which — it’s almost impossible to do in these systems
在没有完全明白这些系统的情况下几乎不可能做到
that we don’t really fully understand.
权力不均往往导致暴力
Inequality of power always leads to violence.
我们透过这些系统可以看出
And we can see inside these systems that inequality
理解不均的道理是一样的
of understanding does the same thing.
我们要是能
If there’s one thing we can do
着手去改进这些系统
to start to improve these systems,
让使用者能更容易辨识
is to make them more legible to the people who use them,
那么我们所有人就会
so that all of us have a common understanding
对实际情况有共同的认识
of what’s actually going on here.
但关于这些系统我考虑得最多的
The thing, though, I thinkmost about these systems
并不是YouTube
is that this isn’t,
这一点我希望我已经解释清楚了
as I hope I’ve explained, really about YouTube.
我考虑的是所有的问题
It’s about everything.
这些责任和代理问题
These issues of accountability and agency,
不透明性和复杂性问题
of opacity and complexity,
暴力 以及本身由少数人手中的权力集中
of the violence and exploitationthat inherently results
而造成的利用问题
from the concentrationof power in a few hands —
这些问题 要严重得多的多
these are much, much larger issues.
它们不仅仅存在于YouTube
And they’re issues not just of YouTube and not just
也不仅仅是通常的技术问题
of technology in general,
甚至不是新出现的问题
and they’re not even new.
但它们已存在了很久
They’ve been with us for ages.
而我们最终建立了这样一个系统
But we finally built this system,
这个全球系统 互联网
this global system, the internet,
以这种非凡的方式 让人无法抗拒地
that’s actually showing them to usin this extraordinary way,
展现在我们面前
making them undeniable.
科技具有这种非凡的能力
Technology has this extraordinary capacity
既能例证并继续保留
to both instantiate and continue
我们所有的特别之处即 这些通常隐藏着的欲望与偏见
all of our most extraordinary,often hidden desires and biases
并被编成代码 带入这个世界
and encoding them into the world,
又能将这些欲望与偏见记录下来
but it also writes them down so
以便我们可亲眼目睹
that we can see them,
不能再佯装它们不存在
so that we can’t pretendthey don’t exist anymore.
我们不能再将科技作为
We need to stop thinking about technology
解决所有问题的方法
as a solution to all of our problems,
而是让其
but think of it
指出问题的实际所在
as a guide to what those problems actually are,
这样就可以开始正确地思考
so we can start thinkingabout them properly
并着手解决这些问题
and start to address them.
非常感谢大家
Thank you very much.
(掌声)
(Applause)
谢谢
Thank you.
(掌声)
(Applause)
海伦•沃尔特斯:詹姆斯 谢谢你的到来 和你的演讲
Helen Walters: James, thank you for coming and giving us that talk.
这非常有意思:就像
So it’s interesting:
当你一想到
when you think
由机器人领主取而代之的那些电影
about the films where the robotic overlords take over,
觉得都比你描述的更吸引人一些
it’s all a bit more glamorousthan what you’re describing.
但我在想 那些电影
But I wonder — in those films,
你越来越抵触
you have the resistance mounting.
其中有没有针对这种东西的抵触呢?
like where is there a resistance mounting towards this stuff?
你觉得有没有任何积极的方面
Do you see any kind of positive signs,
还是有抵触的萌芽?
green shoots of resistance?
詹姆斯•布里德尔:我不清楚像直接抵触的这种事
James Bridle: I don’t knowabout direct resistance,
因为我觉得这是一个超长期的东西
because I think this stuffis super long-term.
它已深深地融入了我们的文化
I think it’s baked into culturein really deep ways.
我的一位朋友Eleanor Saitta常说
A friend of mine,Eleanor Saitta, always says
任何具有足够规模和范围的科技问题
that any technological problemsof sufficient scale and scope
首先都是政治问题
are political problems first of all.
所以我们正在努力解决的这些问题
So all of these things we’re workingto address within this
不仅要通过发展更好的科技
are not going to be addressed just by building the technology better,
还要通过改变产生这些技术的
but actually by changing the society
社会来实现
that’s producing these technologies.
所以我的回答是 “没有”
So no, right now,
现在我觉得 我们还有很长的路要走
I think we’ve got a hell of a long way to go.
但是 就像我刚讲过的我认为通过剖析它们
But as I said, I think by unpacking them,
解释它们 通过超级坦白地谈论它们
by explaining them, by talking about them super honestly,
实际上我们至少能开始进行那个过程
we can actually startto at least begin that process. HW:
当你谈到辨识性和数位素养时
And so when you talk aboutlegibility and digital literacy,
我发现 让用户自己承担
I find it difficult to imagine
数位素养的重任 是很难想象的
that we need to place the burden of digital literacy on users themselves.
但在这新环境中的教育 应该是谁的责任呢
But whose responsibilityis education in this new world? JB:
同样 我认为这种责任应是由我们大家来决定的
Again, I think this responsibility is kind of up to all of us,
决定我们所做的一切 所构建的一切所制造的一切
that everything we do,everything we build, everything we make,
它需要与所有逃避它的人
needs to be madein a consensual discussion
共同协商达成一致后来决定
with everyone who’s avoiding it;
我们不是在构建
that we’re not building systems
去做正确选择的系统
into doing the right thing,
而是让其参与到每一步受教育的过程中
but that they’re actually involvedin every step in educating them,
因为每一个系统都是有教育意义的
because each of these systemsis educational.
那就是我所希望的
That’s what I’m hopeful about,
即使是这种非常严峻的考验
about even this really grim stuff,
如果你能够接受并正确地认识它
that if you can take itand look at it properly,
其本身就是一段获益的过程
it’s actually in itself a piece of education
它能让你开始看到
that allows you to start seeing
复杂的系统是如何在一起工作的
how complex systems come together and work
也许你还能将这些知识运用到社会中的其他领域
and maybe be able to apply that knowledge elsewhere in the world.
詹姆斯 这真是一次有重要意义的讨论
James, it’s such an important discussion,
我确信这里的许多观众
and I know many people here
都非常开明 并做好了准备去面对它
are really open and prepared to have it,
非常感谢为我们开启了新的一天
so thanks for starting off our morning.
– 非常感谢邀请我来- 谢谢你
– Thanks very much for having me. – Thank you.
谢谢
Cheers.
(掌声)
(Applause)

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视频概述

詹姆斯•布里德尔与大家分享对现在网络科技的看法及如何解决现存的弊端

听录译者

收集自网络

翻译译者

昵伊荙

审核员

审核员 V

视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9EKV2nSU8w

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