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拉坦·塔:塔塔集团: 走出印度 走向世界

Ratan Tata: Moving the Tata Group Beyond India

音乐
[MUSIC]
拉坦 非常感谢您今天的到来
Ratan, thank you so much for joining us today.
很荣幸能与您交谈
It’s an honor to speak with you.
当我说我期待这次谈话很久了
And I know I speak for many here in the audience when
我知道我与大多数在座的观众不谋而合
I say that we’ve been looking forwards to this for quite some time.
谢谢(低语)
>> Thank you [INAUDIBLE].
我们先从你的职业生涯谈起吧
>> I wanted to start at the beginning of your career.
正如院长提到的 您曾以建筑师和结构工程师
As the dean mentioned, you were educated at
的身份在康奈尔大学学习
Cornell as an architect and a structural engineer.
并打算在美国度过余下的职业生涯
And plan to spend the rest of your career in the United States.
但您回到了印度 从车间开始干起 我很好奇
But you returned to India starting on the shop floor, and I wonder what
一个年轻人离开美国 重回印度是什么感觉?
that was like as a young man returning from the United States to India?
嗯 老实说 这可以算是一次文化冲击
>> Well, quite frankly, it was, as much a cultural shock.
我离开了十年 世界变化很大
I’d been away for ten years and, things had changed, then
但印度却依然保持原样 差异相当明显
yet they had not changed, and the difference was quite substantive.
此外 我回到印度后并没有把时间花在车间里
In addition to its, I didn’t return to India to spend time on the shop floor.
所以 我真的不清楚当时在做什么
So I, I didn’t really understand what was being done.
在那期间我几度想重回美国
And several times during that period of time I thought of going back to
继续我的建筑师生涯
the U.S., and pursuing my career as an architect.
正如院长所说 你花费数年时间
>> You spent several years, as the dean mentioned,
在塔塔集团的不同领域内四处奔波
moving around different parts of the Tata organization.
当你1991年接到你叔叔的电话
Were you surprised when you got the call from
让你当塔塔集团董事长时 觉得惊讶吗?
your uncle in 1991 to be Chairman of Tata?
是的
>> Yes I was.
主要因为 有很多竞争者
Mainly because, there were many contenders [INAUDIBLE] handful
都来自我叔叔自己的团队
of contenders for that position from his own team of, of people.
并且事发突然 你已经开始觉得
And, it happened very suddenly, and you, you begin to feel that,
这个做了五十年主席的领导者
the leader, he was there for 50 plus years as chairman.
你相信他是不朽的
And you start to believe that somebody’s immortal
他会永远在这个位子上
and that he’s, he’s going to be there perpetually.
所以当他给你打电话 告诉你他的计划时
So when he calls you and says this is what he wants
你会很吃惊 并且突然间感到好孤单
to do, it shakes you up and suddenly you feel all alone.
没错
>> Right.
院长说过 你曾遇到过一个相当棘手的挑战
And you faced a quite a formidable challenge as the, as the dean mentioned.
当你出任首席执行官时
When you took over as CEO, the organization
塔塔集团体系庞大 有着许多独立的子公司
Tata, was large and sprawling with independent business heads.
它们认为自己的生意和公司
That regarded their own, their own businesses, their
以及与别的子公司配合良好
own personal fiefdoms to necessarily play together well.
当你步入瞬息万变的经济领域
And you went in to an economy that was changing rapidly.
并且你叔叔被视为印度商业的巨头
And your uncle was considered a titan of Indian business.
对于年轻的CEO而言是座难以攀登的高山
And very large shoes for a young CEO to fill.
在担任领导人之初
How did you go about establishing your
你是如何建立你的威信的呢?
credibility as a leader in those early days?
我当时面临两个问题
>> I had two, two problems.
第一个是 按传统方式运作的商业巨头
One was with the actual market problems of, of a large,
所面临的市场问题
business house that had operated very traditionally.
第二个是公司内部问题 几个下属集团
And, and the other was internal to the company of, of several titans
可以这么说 它们不想做任何改变
if you like, who, who, didn’t want any change to take place.
我猜一定也有很多的怨言
And I guess a certain amount of resentment also.
所以 刚开始的五年有点类似于克林特·伊斯威特
So the first five years were akin to, Clint Eastwood, if you like.
也就是说致力于
which, which tended to be
清除那些掌权的老人
filled with trying to get these elderly, very prominent people out of the way.
不是用子弹啦 就是靠游说
Not done with bullets, just done with persuasion
很抱歉的说 其实是用钱
and, and, and sorry to say with money.
所以前五年我们都在创造
Uh,so the first five years were spent
一个可以实施改革的大环境
in creating an environment where change was possible.
最终 公司展现出了一股
And then, I’ve been blessed with an organization that has
渴望改革的巨大热情
been displaying considerable spirit in wanting to make a change.
而且 我们还做了很多以前没做过的事
And, many things that we did had not been done before.
但是 我总是能欣慰地看到
But I was always pleased to see
公司给出的巨大回馈
that the response from the organization was tremendous.
没有这些 就不会有现在的成功了
Without that, it could not have been done.
在座的很多来自斯蒂芬斯学院的学生
>> And one of the things that many of us here at
都在研究企业面对改革时的惰性
Stephens, we study, is the inertia of organizations in the face of change.
你是怎样说服领导层及一线员工
How did you go to inspire the leaders and front-line
去相信你所构想出的前景
staff to, to believe in the vision that you set out.
和那些你希望落实的改革措施呢?
And some of the changes that you wish to implement?
这很难 而且从某种程度上来讲
>> That was difficult and to some extent,
我不得不承认我曾失败过
I would have to humbly say that I failed.
我公开做的第一个承诺是
One, one of the first, promises I
我们会使集团更加合理化
made publicly was that we’d rationalize the group.
缩小我们的生意规模 缩减子公司数量
And reduce the number of businesses and reduce the number of companies.
我经常跟别人说我最想做的事就是
I often talk about the first thing that I did with great gusto which is
退出那些我们不擅长的领域 像肥皂 化妆品
to get us out to the soaps and toiletry business which didn’t seem to fit.
然后全身心投入到我们的强项上去
And I ran head long into an issue of what were we doing.
我们关掉了一家已经有二代和三代员工的公司
We were getting rid of, a company that had second and third generation employees,
这是从未有过的事
it was, an unheard of thing.
而且人们会问 这个为改革而改革的人什么来头?
And, who was this person that was making change for the sake of change?
是的
>> Right.
我受到过来自各方的攻击
>> And I got attacked from all, all, quarters.
媒体攻击我 股票市场质疑我
The media attacked me, the, the stock market attacked me, and
当然了 还有公司内部的不满
of course there was the resentment from within, within the company.
人们在想 下一个被放弃的公司是哪一个?
So which company would follow now after this?
总结一下就是一个渴望成功的新主席
That result was the new chairman, so keen to succeed
不希望失败 突然间就招致了各方的攻击
and not wishing to have failure, suddenly being bombarded from all quarters.
最后没有第二家公司被出售
There was no second company that got sold, and I put
我也保持低调
my tail between my legs and try
寻找其他的增长方式
to look at other forms of of growing.
没错
>> Right.
你曾经说过 风险是商业哲学的重要部分
And you’ve said in the past that risk is a necessary part of a business philosophy.
在你的职业生涯中 你做出过很多重大选择
And certainly over your career you’ve made some significant bets.
刚刚院长也提到了很多并购案例
And the dean mentioned a number of the acquisitions.
我想到了你们研发的
I would also think here of the launch of
第一辆印度本土生产的汽车Indica
the, the Indica India’s first indigenously manufactured motor vehicle.
你是如何从容地做出这些重大决定
How did you get comfortable making such consequential decisions and,
并且如你所言 说服别人追随你的呢?
to your point, convincing others to, to follow you into them?
我觉得说服自己的办法就是
>> I think convincing myself that it would work was, is, is a judgment
相信你用的人
call in terms of the faith you put in your people to do this.
Indica就是个恰当的例子
And case in point was on the Indica.
保守派认为进入汽车领域
Conventional wisdom said that you couldn’t enter
必须以合作的方式
the car business without having a collaboration.
打算完全自主研发和生产
And certainly to think of de, designing a car
一辆本土汽车 简直如同天方夜潭
domestically and producing it was an unheard of thing.
当我们启动汽车项目后 我的朋友开始疏远我
And my friends, as we launched the car, started to distance themselves from me.

>> Right.
并不是疏远我 只是想远离失败
>> And it wasn’t from me, it was to distance themselves from failure.
没错
>> Right.
因为保守派不够相信
>> And it was the trust one had in the
这个年轻的团队能整合各方力量并取得成功
young, young team to put this together that drove it.
另一方面 我认为慢慢地
>> The, the other is from time to time, I think change
这些改革已经让公司内部的一些人
has caused a lot of people within the company to, to
开始质疑我们 认为改革尚未具备条件基础
question the wisdom that such a change would be based on.
没错
>> Right.
我很幸运 虽然有些时候会很艰难
>> And I’ve been lucky and in some cases, its been difficult, but
但是就大的方面来说 印度是个潜力巨大的国家
by in large India is a country that has such a great potential.
改革总体上还是很受欢迎的
That change is by and large well received.
对的
>> Right.
我们听过很多声音表示对印度经济感到焦虑
And we’ve heard a lot of anxiety about the Indian economy,
我们也知道印度有着巨大的潜能
and we know that there’s a lot of potential there.
但是最近 至少是在新闻界
But there’s been recently at least there is a lot of
认为改革的步伐已经跟不上发展了
noise in the press about how reform hasn’t kept pace with growth.

>> Mm-hm.
这可能会压缩潜在的经济增长空间
>> And there’s possibly cramping in this growth potential.
你认为印度的前景如何呢?
What do you think lays ahead for the future of India?
你知道 我一直对新印度保持乐观
>> Well you know I’ve always been very positive about the new India.
但现实也让我沮丧
And I’ve been saddened by the fact
经过几年的快速发展后
that after several years of, very progressive growth,
出现了一些阻力
there’s been a stumbling, activity.
印度关于腐败的控诉越来越多
That is been a country driven by accusations of corruption.
并不是虚假的指控
Not wrong accusations, rightly so.
裙带资本主义盛行
Crony capitalism and a government that
政府摧毁了经济增长的基础
has withdrawn it’s base of, of growth.
与此同时 我认为
At the same time I, I feel that, that its been,
印度已经跌到谷底 我们正在开始复苏
that it’s bottomed out and we’re on a path again to grow.
我们一定会实现复兴
But we’ve got to rebuild.
我们的经济增长率从超过百分之八骤降到不足百分之五
We’ve gone from a eight, 8% plus growth rate, down to sub five briefly.
我们会恢复到以前的增长速度
We will grow back to the growth rate we had.
我们需要抑制通货膨胀 但是我认为
We will need to control inflation, but I think India will, once
印度人民一定会众志成城 取得成功
again the same spirit of the people will, make it, make it happen.
没错
>> Right.
你刚刚提到过一个现象 在印度也颇受争议
And one of the things that you mentioned is, that’s often remarked about in India.
也就是说 很多的
And for that matter, a number of
新兴市场都是靠裙带资本主义
emerging markets, is this phenomenon of crony capitalism.
你曾经也说过正直的人品很重要
And you’ve spoken in the past about how you value personal integrity,
不仅针对你自己 也针对你欣赏的领导者
both in your own leadership, but also in the leaders you admire.
你是否曾经因为方法或者是结果
Have you ever faced an opportunity which you had to turn down
存在道德上的问题 而拒绝一些机会?
for, for ethical reasons, or for the ethical consequences of that decision?
确实有一些这样的事情
>> Sev, several, several instances with, with that would be so.
我想最好的例子就是
I think, perhaps, the, the most visible one
我们曾经想开通一条航线
was, when we wanted to form an airline.
说来也怪 航线是当时的总理让我们开通的
Oddly enough we were asked to form an airline by, by the then Prime Minister.
但在特权阶级的阻挠下
The vested interests made sure that we didn’t
我们历经三任总理都没成功
form an airline through three successive Prime Ministers.
我们有自己明确的底线
And that was the most visible of, of the thing which we walked away from.
我们本可以通过
Be, because we could have probably had it
贿赂和腐败拿下这个项目
by succumbing to subjective issues of bribery or corruption.
但我们没有这样做
And we walked away from that.
好的
>> Right.
即使航空是我们非常想涉足的领域
>> When airline would have been something we really wanted to do.
上个世纪之交 我们初试了下航空业
We pioneered aviation at the turn of the century and it
并且我们非常愿意重回这个行业
was emotionally something that we would have liked very much to be in again
好的
>> Right.
我知道到您和您的叔叔JRD都非常热爱航空业
I know both you and your uncle JRD were both aviation enthusiasts
我能想象到你当时失望的心情
I can imagine the disappointment you must have felt.
近十年来 你的成就之一是
One of the, one of the hallmarks of your, your ten
带领塔塔走出印度
years here has, in fact, been the move away from, from India.
从一家印度的本土公司转变成庞大的跨国公司
In transforming Tata from an Indian business into a true multinational.
是什么促使你们走向海外
What’s prompted the move abroad and, what were some
在此过程中 遇到的最大的挑战又是什么?
of the biggest challenges you faced, in doing so?
很大程度上是因为对增长的需求
To a great extent it was the, the, the issue of having the need to grow.
并且 从某些方面来说
And the need to take of you that you had
我们已经在印度市场上取得了较大的份额
grown in India in some cases of fairly substantial market share.
作为一家大公司 我们不应该把眼光局限于印度
And that as a group, we ought to look beyond the shores of India.
要看到别的我们可以进入的经济市场
To another economic cycle in which we would operate.
当然 现在看来 也是有得有失
Now the, yes, it’s pluses and minuses.
我们从没预见到欧洲会走向衰退
We didn’t ever foresee that Europe would go through
而我们的主要投资都放在欧洲
the downturn that it did, and that was where our major investments lay.
所以说 那是一段追求增长的过程 我们通过调整基本法
So it was the quest of growth and, and changing the ground rules
来实现兼并和扩张 这是我们以前没干过的
to say that we could grow by acquisitions which surely we had never done.
好的
>> Right.
进行全球扩张难免会受到一些争议
The international expansion there was not without
或违背经济上的合理性
some controversy and aside from the economic rationality.
我想当泰特利红茶被收购时
There’s also emotional consequences and I’m thinking
英国人一定有些情绪化的反应
here of the acquisition of Tetley tea.
英国人钟爱的一个本土茶饮品牌
The idea of the beloved British Tea brand being bought by
被印度的公司所收购 一定让某些英国人心绪难平
an Indian company, must have stirred, stirred some hearts in England, and
如果他们只是这样 那英国人真算是斯文有礼了
>> If, if they did, it is quite quiet and dignified.
反应更激烈的是
The more vocal one was.
反应更激烈的是捷豹和陆虎被收购
The more vocal was, was when Jaguar and Land Rover got acquired.
好的
>> Right.
人们的反应更情绪化也更明显
>> And that was far more emotional and far more visible.
不同地区 大家的反应不同
different, different reactions from different quarters.
一些人担心印度公司只是想
some, some concerned that an Indian company was going
借别人的品牌迅速提高自己的知名度
to take over, vaulted to very venerable brands.
这才是他们(指印度公司)的本意
What were they going to do with it.
是的
>> Yeah.
福特创造了这两个品牌 但没能盈利
>> Ford had made, not been able to make a profit with them, so
那么 这个在高端车领域毫无经验的印度公司
what was this Indian company that had no experience in the premium car segment.
要怎么经营这个公司呢?
Do with such a company.
工人们所担心的是我们会
Concern by the workers that we were going
关掉工厂然后搬迁回印度
to close down plants and move them to India.
大部分英国人的想法是 又一个英国品牌消失了
And a general feeling of, in England, that another English brand was gone.
对的
>> Right.
坦白地说 兼并后我们仍然
>> Quite frankly what we did after we got involved was
让原公司的管理层掌舵
to tell the management of the company to make their own destiny.
我们只是不遗余力地支持他们
That we support them in terms of what they wanted to do.
当然 市场的表现也证明我们做对了
And of course, the marketplace has been very conducive to what we have done.
确实
>> Right.
所以 我觉得收购捷豹和路虎比茶饮公司引起的反响更激烈
>> So I, I think the Jaguar Land Rover thing was much more fiery than the tea.
但是 正如我所说 仍然是斯文有礼的
Then there’s that very, very quietly and then as I said in a very dignified way.
怪不得大家都说英国人冷静沉着
>> No doubt the British stiff upper lip [LAUGH] was what they applied there.
(大笑)是的
>> [LAUGH] Yes.
塔塔的一个明显特征就是异常复杂
One of the remarkable aspects of Tata is its sheer complexity.
天天管理这样大的公司
It strikes me as being an enormously difficult challenge
对我来说是个巨大的挑战
to be able to manage this company day to day.
集团拥有 院长刚提到 大概50万的员工在世界各地
You have, as the dean mentioned, almost half a million employees world-wide,
拥有超过100家运营中的公司 36%已经上市
over 100 operating companies, 36 of which are, are publicly listed.
麦肯锡的多明尼克·巴伦 本周在这儿提到
Dominick Baron of McKenzie, when he was here this week spoke
好的领导人既要拥有显微镜和望远镜
about great leaders needing to have both microscope and a telescope.
也就是说既要能发现那些好的 有价值的细节
That is an ability to focus on the fine details where they really count,
又得放眼全局
but also to see the larger picture.
发现市场转变的长期趋势
And to see the secular trends transforming the markets.
你是如何日复一日地执掌着塔塔集团
How did you go about managing Tata day to day
并且平衡微观和宏观的关系
and balance that need for a micro and macro perspective?
我认为 总体上我们公司的
I think by and large all our companies
CEO都很能干 由他们运营着公司业务
have had strong CEOs that have run the businesses.
而且
And
我唯一想说的就是 我有一套很有趣的管理规则
the only, only thing I would say is that I’ve had a funny type of rule.
刚开始 你站在战略的高度上远远地观察着公司
Where you, you sit apart looking at the over all company on a strategic basis.
当问题出现时
And then when there is a problem
你便马上深入到公司内部去
you go into the company much more than may happen answer in the world.
执行一个CEO的职责
Where you find yourself playing the same role as a CEO in terms of
像是处理紧急情况 或者是调整公司的方向
either firefighting, or moving a company in another direction.
处理完后 你再回到原来的位置
And then, move back again into a macro position where you’re
从全局的角度去看你的公司或集团
looking at the company or the group in its broader sense.
所以 就像你说的那样
So it, exactly what you said.
这一切都要靠随机应变
It inadvertently has been what has been done.
你如何确保你拥有
How did you make sure that you had
充分的信息来做出决定
the information you needed to make the decisions?
我们曾经邀请过PFTT的CEO们
So we’ve had past PFTT CEOs come in and speak about
谈论他们是如何秘密探访公司一线
how they would covertly conduct visits to the front line.
和工厂车间 为了
And, and visit factory floors, just to get to,
评估工人们精神和士气
to gauge the spirit morale of their workforce.
我认为这非常正确
>> I think that that’s an absolute given.
最糟糕的事就是仅仅靠一个人的判断
The worst thing that can happen is to, is to determine where
来决定公司的去向 这个人就是
the company’s going through the eyes or the mouth of one person, i.e.,
CEO
the CEO.
是的
>> Right.
去店里和员工聊一聊 交流一下
>> Far more is gained by walking on the shop
你会得到更多的信息
floor and talking to the people and trying to communicate.
我认为 我的一个缺点就是
One of my weaknesses has been, I think,
从来没有和我的员工好好交流过
never communicated and now for I adequately with our people
一方面是因为我害羞
Partly because I’m, I’m a shy person.
另一方面
And secondly,
我没有意识到交流的重要性
because I didn’t realize the importance of communication.
但是我认为
But I think communication with the
和员工交流的作用非常大
employees is an exceedingly important function.
从这个意义上讲 公司主席要常与员工沟通 常露面
That any company chairman has to do and be visible in that sense.
你是否曾发表过反对意见?
>> Did you ever have to overrule?
你是否曾经因为听说了一些消息
Or disagree with decisions made by some of the leaders of your businesses?
而反对其他领导做的决定?
Based on information you were hearing from.
哦 是的
>> Oh yes.
从第一线听说的?
>> From the front line.
经常这样
>> Very much so.
这种情况常让人震惊 因为我很信任那位CEO
That, that’s usually quite an eye opener because you have a trusted CEO.
但是有一天你发现 不知是有意还是无意
And you find either inadvertently or consciously you’re
他告诉你的情况不真实
getting a colored picture of, of a situation.
对的
>> Right.
你在塔塔制定的另一个方针
Another one of the approaches that you took at, at Tata.
也是你任期的特点
Which is a hallmark of you tenure is
就是关注金字塔底端的消费者
the focus on the bottom of the pyramid consumer.
我们都知道塔塔和NANO的故事
And we all know the story of the TATA and NANO
我们去年参观了你们位于古吉拉特邦的工厂
and a number of us visited your factory last year in Gujarat.
我惊奇地发现我在车里觉得很舒服
And I was pleasantly surprised to find that I could fit quite comfortably inside.
(大笑)
[LAUGH]
真替你高兴
>> I’m glad you did.
不过 我听说它们是特地为你设计的
Well, I heard it was modeled after, after you.
为了让你这样身材的人觉得舒服
So the, someone of your stature needed to fit comfortably.
但是正如我们之前谈论过
But the NANO as we spoke about before
NANO的面市经历了很多困难
the interview has also met with some, some challenges.
所以 我很好奇你是否依旧
And so I’m curious whether you’re still as
热衷于金字塔底端的市场
enthusiastic about the bottom of the pyramid market today.
你从NANO这一课中学到了什么
And what lessons do you take from the, the NANO episode?
问的好
>> Good question.
在印度 已知的消费者市场大约有2.5亿到3亿人
The Indian Market, the known consumer market’s about 250 to 300 million people.
如果你注意到金字塔底端的市场
If you take the base of the pyramid.
并筹划着生产产品投放到
And look at, at developing products below that into the, into the
即将具备消费能力的潜在市场之中
segment of the market that’s moving into that consuming era area.
那么市场的规模会扩大到5亿至6亿
The market size extends to 500 to 600 million people.
这是个巨大的市场
It’s a huge market.
还有3亿人 你的产品尚未覆盖到
300 to which you don’t have products to address.
所以 如果你想到了怎么进入那个市场
So if you can think of how to, how to reach that, how to
你将会占领一个
reach that market, you have an exceedingly
巨大的潜在市场
large potential market.
举个合适的例子 比如说印度的手机产业
And a case in point, might be the cell phone industry in India.
当我成年后 进入了学校 要等七到十年才能得到一部手机
When I grew up in, in school you waited seven to ten years to get a telephone.
这些企业都由政府控制或是政府垄断的
There was a government incumbent company or a government monopoly.
它们有自身局限性 缺乏增长的动力
That it had limitations that it refused to grow rates were high.
所以 除了像我这样的一些人
So apart from people like me.
一个小店的老板
A little shop keeper or
或者一位人力车夫 从未想过
a, a hand cart puller let’s say, could never
可以用手机联系别人 而不是公共电话
dream of having connectivity other than through a payphone.
今天有了手机 这一页就翻篇了
Today with cellphones, it’s bypassed all of that.
人力车夫只需要
And, and the handcart pusher can
买一张预付花费的SIM卡和一部廉价的手机 就可以连接世界
buy a prepaid SIM card and a low-cost phone and he’s connected.
他有了一个号码
He has a number.
他可以被呼叫
He can be reached.
他有了一个有尊严的身份
He has an identity and it’s self esteem.
所以你在印度就拥有了六亿手机用户
So you have cell phone subscribers that are maybe 600 million in India.
手机也成了印度有史以来发展最快的产业
And the fastest growing industry that the country has seen.
这一切都要归因于科技让手机变得廉价易用
So, it has come because technology has made a phone available
不用再依赖铜线和光纤
and it’s no longer dependent on copper wires or optical fiber.
还是那句话 十年前谁能想到
And this is happened again, who would have thought that ten years ago you
你在印度能拥有5亿手机用户
would have had 500 million telephone subscribers in India.
所以 我认为印度市场的潜力是巨大的
So, I think the potential of the Indian market
只要你的产品有足够大的覆盖面
is huge if you address yourself to, to that.
我认为NANO做得还不够
I don’t think the NANO adequately did that.
我们学到的经验是
And we, the lesson we learnt is, you can’t do something on the
不能将销售汽车的方法用于NANO
basis of trying to sell it the same way as you would sell another car.
我们应该像推销踏板车或摩托车那样来销售NANO
We should have been selling it like once sold a scooter or a motorcycle.
只是不是两轮的
And instead of two wheels give them
而是四轮的 安全的家庭交通方式
four wheels in a safe form of family transport.
我们汲取了经验 并且会在前进中不断改进
We’ve learned our lessons on that and we rectify that as, as we go forward.
没错
>> Right.
所以 除了重要的利润动机
So, important profit motives.
社会效益也是市场定位的重要因素
But also social consequences of, of really addressing that market.
是的
>> Yes.
塔塔集团在慈善事业上拥有让人瞩目的记录
>> And Tata has a remarkable record of, its involvement with philanthropic causes.
你是如何看待像塔塔这样的组织所扮演的社会角色?
And how do you view the role of organizations like Tata?
特别是在解决社会需求时
And the, in particular, the role of
所需承担的社会责任
corporate social responsibility in addressing needs in society.
我认为这还涉及到个人生活的层面
>> Well I think, this, this transcends to personal life also.
你处在一个收入差异巨大的国家
You’ve got a country with tremendous disparity of income.
一部分人非常富有 一部分人却一贫如洗
You’ve got very rich people on the one hand, and abject poverty on the other.
你必须非常清醒地认识到
You have to be sensitive to the fact that,
当越来越多愤怒的人
this gap cannot continue to widen while,
看到了不公平的社会环境
there’s a large discontented number of people.
这种贫富差距就不能再扩大了
Who are looking at the inequities of, of the environment as they see it.
因此 对于企业来说 我觉得它们应该有意识地
To, for companies therefore, I think there has to be a, the sensitivity
为自己的客户群体做一些事情
to doing something in the, in the communities around which you operate.
努力提高他们的生活质量
And, and making an effort to, to raise the quality of life
消除他们已经产生的仇富和抱怨的心理
so that there’s, there’s not envy and, and distaste for what was there.
企业应该拥有更多的正能量
But look, the companies looked at, in a more positive sense,
提高人们的生活质量
and in enhancing the quality of life of the people around them.
我们将利润的4%
We expend about 4% of our net, net profit,
用于农村发展项目 而且我们是独立做的
in these rural development activities, and we do it ourselves.
一些人可能会说这些是股东的钱
And someone may argue that this is shareholders’ money.
的确是
Which it is.
但是 我认为这不仅能
But I think it has bought a sense
表现公司的包容
of, of not just tolerance, but a sense
还能体现股东对我们公司所涉领域的支持
of welcoming our companies in wherever they’ve been.
而且深入参与到社群建设后 可以扩大我们在
And enhancing whatever we have been trying to do in the product
产品辐射区 服务辐射区以及各个社群的影响力
area or the services area to community area, being part of the community.
你能否评论一下美国和印度这样的新兴市场
>> Would you view the role of corporate social responsibility, it’s being
它们的企业在承担社会责任上所扮演的角色有何不同?
quite different in the United States versus an emerging market, like India?
我不太清楚美国的情况 不能做评论
>> I don’t know enough about the United States to make a comment,
但是我认为不管用什么方式
but I think in one form or another it, it becomes an issue.
这个都是所有企业都要处理好的问题
That all corporations will have to, have to deal with.
我们认为 作为一个商人 要考虑到自身形象
And, and we think as, as businessmen, have to consider ourselves.
不要让自己看起来像是一个丑陋的商人
And removing the image of being the ugly
一个腐败的商人 或者仅仅是一家公司的老板
businessman, the venal businessman, and being heads of, companies.
要做一位
With leaders
将客户的利益看得高于公司利益的领导者
whose interests go beyond that of their company to the communities they serve.
我认为如果我们做到这点
And if I think if we can do that,
我们就可以打破一个世纪以来
we can undo an image that has been created over
贪婪自私的商人形象
the last century, of greed and self serving desires.
所以 我认为这是需要我们认真对待的
So, I think its something we need to be sensitive about.
斯坦福向来具有企业家精确
>> Stanford has a reputation for entrepreneurship, and many of
在座的很多学生都有成为企业家的愿望
the students here in the crowd have aspirations to be entrepreneurs.
你认为新兴市场的创新更多的
Do you think the innovation taking place in the merging
是靠塔塔这样的跨国公司驱动
markets is going to be driven by more multinationals like Tata?
还是说个体的公司会
Or do individual entrepreneurs have the ability to
瓦解掉印度的主流市场或者别的主流市场?
disrupt major markets in India and others like it?
我希望是后者
>> I would hope that it’s the latter.
我希望每个国家都能有自己的企业
I would hope that we can homegrow enterprises in various countries.
我觉得美国与众不同的地方就在于
I think what the United States has had, which is very different is it’s had a,
它拥有鼓励人们创新的环境
an environment where a good idea driven by people with merit.
你能享受到比其他发达国家
Has a better chance of being supported and financed
更好的扶持 赞助或培养政策
and nurtured than you might find in developed countries.
一个好的创意在发达国家经常会被扼杀
Very often a good idea, dies in, in, a developed country, or even, I mean
不对 我是说发展中国家 甚至在其他发达国家也常这样
a developing country or even a developed country outside the United States.
最终 他们来到美国 然后获得成功
And, and that person finally moves to the United States and makes a success.
这都是由环境决定的
And it’s because the environment allows that to happen.
所以 我认为鼓励创新创业的环境非常重要
So I think there’s a need for supporting environment to take place.
但是我还是希望能看到越来越多的地方公司
But I would hope that we would see more and more local companies being
能开拓进取 勇于创新 最终成为全球性企业
entrepreneurial and creative and being at some stage, global players.
当然 我们已经看到
>> And certainly we’ve seen a number of
有很多国家试图复制硅谷的成功
countries try to replicate the success of Silicon Valley.
他们发现硅谷的成功归因于很多因素
And, have found that it takes a unique mix of ingredients.

>> Yep.
像是人力资本 法制环境等
>> Whether it’s human capital, legal institutions, and so on.
你觉得印度
Are you hopeful that India will be able
能否创造出这样的活力
to, to create that dynamic within its own country?
我觉得可能性是有的 但能不能实现不一定
I think the potential exists, whether India does or doesn’t will depend.
不幸的是 很大程度上还得靠政府的政策
Unfortunately it’s a much greater extent on government
而不是自由的环境
policy than it does in a totally free environment.
没错
>> Right.
我前面说过 当你从你叔叔手中接过塔塔集团
I mentioned when you took over that many, many external observers they
很多旁观者认为你任重而道远
thought you had large shoes to fill in taking over from your uncle.
现在 新的主席即将履职
Now, with another transition of power Cyrus Pallonji Mistry has
塞勒斯·密斯特里将要托起你的光环
his own large shoes to full, that of yourself.
我很好奇你给了塞勒斯哪些建议 关于承担一个主席的职责
I wonder what advice you’d give Cyrus as he takes on this task as Chairman.
我告诉塞勒斯他要做的就是做自己
>> I’ve told Cyrus that he needs to be his own person.
实际上 我也是这么做的
that, finally, it was something I did.
我意识到要是处处模仿我的叔叔
I realized the shoes I had to fill were far too big
达到他的成就实在是太难了
for me to mimic the person I would, I was following.
所以我决定做自己
And I just decided that just be myself and do
做自己认为正确的事 这才是可行的方法
what I thought was right would be the way to go.
我跟塞勒斯说了这些
I told Cyrus the same thing.
我认为他
I think he.
他应该坚持自己的本心
He should feel that he is being his own person.
让他的品性
And let his personality and his
也可以说是良心 来引领他
conscience, if you might, drive him.
待会儿再让观众提问
>> In a moment, I’m going to, to turn it over to the audience for questions.
我还有最后一个问题想问你
But one last question before we do with you.
所有斯坦福MBA课程的申请者都会被问到同一个问题
In Stanford we ask one question of all our applicants of the MBA program which is
什么都你最重要 为什么?
what matters most to you and why?
我想知道你会怎么回答
I wonder how you’d answer that question?
我可能申请不上
>> I’d obviously fail.
(大笑)
>> [LAUGH]
斯坦福的MBA 因为
>> In, in Standford because I don’t
我无法回答这个问题(低声)
know how I can answer that question [INAUDIBLE].
对我来说 突然间拥有那么多空闲时间
To me I think short term the transition of suddenly having a lot of
并且可以随意支配 是种奢侈
time and being able to be the master of that time is, is a lovely luxury.
这种奢侈会让人厌倦吗?
Whether that luxury becomes boredom?
随着时间的推移 我们可能才会知道
As time goes on, it’s something that will need to
有什么新的追求会出现?
be seen and how it gets filled with other pursuits?
作为信托基金的负责人 我很难
As head of the trust, I will be involved
对刚刚聊到的那些事务完全撒手不管
in some of the things we’ve talked about a little in the past few minutes.
我一直致力于
I was trying to make a difference in, in what,
改善印度人民的生活质量
in the quality of life of the people in, in India.
但是 至于未来几年我能做到什么程度
But, to what extent did my next few years would
会不会改变想法 我不知道
lead, lead me to fulfil that or change from that view, I don’t know.
所以 不得不说 我可能通不过(MBA申请考核)
So, with humility, I’d have to say, I wouldn’t fall into.
(大笑)
>> [LAUGH]
那些毕业于斯坦福的成功人士
>> The success model, the Stanford
可以回答你这个问题
graduate would, in answering your question.
我想 从你为人民服务的一生
>> I think, over a lifetime of, of, service
我们可以得出结论
that we can, we can draw in conclusions to.
你对印度社会的影响如此之大
Some of things that have clearly mattered to you
一定有什么事对你而言很重要
in terms of the impact that you’ve had on, on Indian society.
我想 如果严肃一点 我会说
>> I think, I think, if, if, seriously, if if I said I would like
我仍然想为这个社会的改变做一些努力
to be seen as being someone who could continue to try to make a difference.
我觉得这将是非常让我欣慰的成就
I think that would be a very satisfying thing for me to achieve.
好的 我想现在是观众提问的最佳时机了
>> Well, I think that’s a great point to, to turn it over to questions.
我们课上经常会讨论的一个问题是
>> A question we have been struggling with in some of
大公司在推动社会巨变上所扮演的角色
our classes, is the role that large companies have in creating macro-changing.
你们正使印度发生巨变
You’re clearly doing that in India.
我很好奇 你们利用自身的社会地位
And I’m wondering if you, if you have any anecdotes
去影响政府 让它做的某些决定
of ways in which you’ve been able, by your position.
更符合国家利益
To influence the government to make certain decisions that were in
有没有用到一些很有意思的方法?
the best interests of the country, when, maybe, they wouldn’t have.
你的问题是指
>> Your, your question relates to how we are, how we
我们如何布局和投资我们的基金
are channeling or deciding how, how and where to channel our funds.
还是指别的?
And in that sense or?
也就是说 一个
>> Or almost be the influence that a large business, a large business that is, that
心怀家国的大公司
has a vision for, for good for the
如何积极地影响政府政策?
country can have in changing what influencing policy, positively?
我不知道能不能充分回答你的问题
I, I think I don’t know if I’m answering your question adequately.
但是我认为大公司
But I think large business has, has to have an element of,
要把服务社会做为自己的方向
of orienting themselves to, to serve a social need also.
同时也要考虑到商业需求
In addition to, just serving, a business need.
对于我们来说 我们也许靠商业动力驱动
And in our case I think there’s, we may be driven by a, by business motivation.
但是我们会时刻警惕着
But we’re, we should always be conscious of, of
哪些领域并不符合大众利益
areas that we feel are not in the public interest.
最近我们迈进了一片”危险水域” 但是我们
And now going into dangerous waters, but we withdrew from
马上退出了酒类业务
activities in the, in the liquor business.
因为我们觉得这个领域
Because we felt that this was an area that, that tended to be,
所服务的人群并不是我们的目标人群
serving a consumer base that we, that perhaps we didn’t want to be in.
我们非常想从事与自然资源有关的生意
We, we look very hard about being in, in certain natural resource business.
而且以一种不涉任何贪污腐败的方式运营
Which, which should become rather venal in terms of how those businesses were run.
我认为我们所从事的业务
And I think similarly we’ve entered buis, businesses that,
都是我们认为值得做的事
maybe small, in a small way which have been what we considered to be.
与人民有益 虽然有的很微弱
The worthwhile thing to do, for the communities, that we’ve, been in.
我不认为存在一种非常公开和建设性的方法
But, I don’t think there’s, there’s been an, an open, in a, in a very
来实现你刚刚的建议
constructive way to do, what you’ve, what you’ve suggested, as yet.
(音乐)
[SOUND].
谢谢你 拉坦
Thank you Ratan.
谢谢
Thank you.
(音乐)
[SOUND]

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视频概述

塔塔集团的商业运营涉及七个领域:通信和信息技术、工程、材料、服务、能源、消费产品和化工产品;旗下拥有超过100家运营公司,其办事机构遍布世界六大洲80多个国家,并为85个国家提供产品和服务出口,全球各地的职员数量超过45万人。

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视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mySvo-EPT0

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