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认识推动 mRNA 疫苗革命的科学家夫妇

Meet the scientist couple driving an mRNA vaccine revolution | Uğur Şahin and Özlem Türeci

Chris Anderson: Dr. Şahin and Dr. Türeci, welcome.
Chris Anderson:欢迎Şahin博士和Türeci博士来到现场
Such a treat to speak with you.
我很高兴能访谈你们
Özlem Türeci: Thank you very much, Chris.
Özlem Türeci:非常感谢 Chris
It’s a pleasure to be here.
我们很高兴能来到这里
CA: So tell me, as you think back over the last 18 months,
CA:那么说说看 你们想用什么词语
what words pop to mind for you?
来形容过去的十八个月呢?
ÖT: Well, one word which comes to mind is breathless.
ÖT:嗯 我想到的词是喘不过气
It was indeed a breathless 16, 17 months for us.
这十六 七月左右的时间我们确实忙得喘不过气
When we started in January last year,
去年一月份研究开始的时候
it was already at that time clear to us that we were already in a pandemic.
我们清楚地意识到疫情已经普遍流行了
What was not known was how fast this pandemic would evolve
我们不知道的是疫情究竟会发展得多快
and whether we would have the time in the first place
也不知道到底有没有时间
to have a vaccine ready soon enough in due time.
及时地研发出有效的疫苗
And understanding this,
考虑到这些情况
it meant for us that there was not even one day to lose.
我们一分一秒都不能浪费
And this was the mindset of the entire team
这就是我们美因茨大学和BioNTech的
here in Mainz and at BioNTech
整个团队当时的心态
and later on also of our partners which were involved,
之后参与研究的合作伙伴 包括辉瑞等公司
Pfizer and others,
也都怀着这种心态
to keep going and be fast.
大家决心不断钻研 快速解决问题
CA: I mean, it’s so extraordinary that the ideas and the work in your minds
CA:要我说 你们的想法和研究思路
have now impacted hundreds of millions,
如今影响着亿万甚至数十亿人的生活
perhaps billions of people.
实在是了不起
That must feel overwhelming.
你们一定觉得心潮澎湃
And yet, I know at the same time,
不过我也了解到
you don’t believe in this notion of a flash-in-the-pan ideas.
你们并不认同“灵光一现”这种说法
Steven Johnson, the author, in his book “Where [Good] Ideas Come From,”
作家Steven Johnson在《奇思妙想从何而来》一书中
speaks of the slow hunch,
提出了一个叫作慢直觉的概念
that the best ideas happen over many years.
即最好的想法都是历经数年酝酿出的
And I know that you believe that is true in your case.
我知道你们认同这个观点
I’d like us to go back a couple of decades
咱们能不能回溯到数十年前
to tell us how this began.
讲讲现在的一切是如何开始的
How did you meet?
你们是怎么认识的
ÖT: We met on an oncohematology ward,
ÖT:我们是在一个血液瘤病区相识的
Uğur being a young physician,
那时Uğur是位年轻的医生
and I was still in medical school training on ward.
而我还是在病区参加培训的医学生
Which means we met in one of the worlds
也就是说我们因共同领域而相识
which became important to us,
这个领域即医疗领域
the world of patient care,
或者说血液瘤治疗领域
of treating oncohematology patients.
对我们来说很重要
And we soon found out
我们很快发现了
that there was a second world which we liked,
第二个共同喜爱的领域
namely the world of science.
也就是科学领域
We were haunted by the same dilemma,
当时我们遇到了同样的困境
namely that whereas there was not much we could offer our cancer patients,
即无法为癌症患者提供太多治疗方案
there were so many potential technologies we encountered in the lab
但是在实验室中我们发现了很多
which could address this.
能够解决问题的潜在技术
So one of our shared visions
我们的共同理想之一
was to bridge this dilemma
就是通过努力快速研发科学技术
by working on bringing science and technology fast.
解决这种困境
And that’s an important word here.
这也是很重要的事
Fast to the patient’s bedside
我们力争快速将科技应用于临床
to address high medical need.
以满足大量的临床需求
CA: So I think the first company you founded nearly 20 years ago
CA:我记得你们在约20年前成立的公司
was to use the power of the human immune system to tackle cancer.
宗旨是利用人类免疫系统来治疗癌症对吗
Uğur Şahin: We were always interested
Uğur Şahin:我们一直对利用患者的免疫系统
by using the patient’s immune system
治疗癌症和其他疾病
to fight cancer and other type of diseases.
非常地感兴趣
As immunologists,
身为免疫学家
we knew how powerful the human immune system is.
我们深知人类免疫系统的强大
But it was also clear that the human immune system,
也同样知道在癌症病例中
in the case of cancer,
人体的免疫系统
did not fight cancer cells.
并不攻击癌细胞
It could fight it, but it didn’t.
它有攻击的能力 但没有这么做
And for that, we wanted to develop immunotherapies.
因此 我们希望开发出免疫疗法
That means treatments that use the power of the immune system
即利用免疫系统的能力进行治疗
and redirect the power of the immune system to cancer cells.
重新让免疫力对抗癌细胞
It was clear that in the university setting,
显然我们无法依靠大学的支持
we could not continue to develop monoclonal antibodies
持续研制单克隆抗体
because the cost for development of monoclonal antibodies
因为研制临床试验前
before you can start a clinical trial,
所需的单克隆抗体
was in the range of 20, 30 million euros,
费用高达两至三千万欧元
and therefore we decided to start a company to get the funding.
因此我们决定成立一家公司以便募集资金
CA: Now, soon after you started this company,
CA:你们成立这家公司后不久
you decided to get married.
就决定要结婚了
Tell me about your wedding day.
聊聊你们的婚礼吧
ÖT: Day was well planned, a quick wedding.
ÖT:那是一场精心策划的简短婚礼
And thereafter we went back to the laboratory
婚礼结束后我们就回实验室了
and our guests at our wedding, that was basically our team,
婚礼上的宾客基本都是
our research team.
我们科研团队的成员
So no time to lose, Chris.
Chris 我们确实分秒必争
CA: (Laughs)
CA:[大笑]
That was a pretty special honeymoon.
确实是次独特的蜜月体验
I mean, it seems like your love for each other
我感觉你们对彼此的爱
is very much bound up in your love for this work
好像很大程度上是建立在
and your sense of the importance of this work.
你们对工作的热爱和重视上的
How would you characterize those intersecting relationships there?
你们会怎样形容这种与工作交叉的感情关系呢
UŞ: We are really two scientists.
UŞ:只能说我们真的是两个科学家
At the end of the day, we love what we do,
说到底还是因为我们热爱我们的工作
and for us,
我们对工作和生活的取舍
we don’t differentiate between work and life balance.
想法是一致的
It’s for us really a privilege to be scientists,
能成为科学家 从事自己热爱的工作
to be able to do what we love.
对我们来说真的是一种荣幸
And therefore, we combine our normal life with our professional life.
因此 我们选择将日常生活与职业生活相结合
And therefore, this is pretty normal for us.
这对我们来说也很正常
CA: So talk to me about this extraordinary molecule RNA,
CA:下面来谈谈优异的RNA分子吧
and how you got interested in it and how it became, as I understand it,
你们是怎么开始关注它
an increasing focus of your work.
它又是如何成为你们工作焦点的呢
And indeed, it led to the founding of BioNTech.
事实上它直接促成了BioNTech公司的创立对吗
Talk about that.
说说看吧
UŞ: Yeah, mRNA is a natural molecule,
UŞ:嗯 mRNA是一种天然分子
it’s one of the first molecules of life.
它是组成生命的最初分子之一
It is a carrier of genetic information.
它是遗传信息的载体
But in contrast to DNA, it’s not stable.
和DNA不同的是 它并不稳定
So it can be used to transfer information to human cells.
因此 我们可以用它将信息传进人体细胞
And the human cells can use this information to build proteins,
人体细胞再利用这些信息合成蛋白质
which can be used for therapeutic settings,
这个过程可以应用于医疗领域
for example, to make a protein which is a vaccine,
例如合成组成为蛋白质的疫苗
or to make a protein which is an antibody,
合成抗体蛋白
or to make a protein which is another type of drug.
或者合成可以用作药物的蛋白
And we were fascinated by this molecule class,
我们沉迷研究这类分子
because it was very clear
是因为合成mRNA的速度很快
that mRNA can be produced pretty fast, within a few days.
仅需要几天时间
And we were, as MDs,
身为医学博士
we were particularly interested to develop personalized medicines.
我们尤其希望能研发出个性化药物
That means a treatment and immunotherapy
也就是为癌症患者特别设计的
specifically designed for a cancer patient,
疗程和免疫疗法
because one of the key challenges in cancer treatment,
因为治疗癌症的最大困难之一
is that every patient has a different tumor.
就在于每位患者的肿瘤都不完全相同
If you compare two tumors of two patients
如果你将患有同种癌症的
with the same type of tumor,
两位患者的肿瘤进行对比
the similarity of the tumors is less than three percent
它们的共同之处将不到百分之三
and 97 percent is really unique.
剩余百分之九十七都是独特的
And today, it’s still not possible
如今我们仍然无法
to address the uniqueness of the tumor of a patient.
很好地针对患者肿瘤的特异性进行治疗
And therefore,
因此
we were seeking for a technology which could be used for immunotherapy
我们试图在最短的时间内
and which could be used to develop a treatment
找出一种可能发展成成熟治疗手段的
within the shortest possible time.
可用于免疫治疗的技术
The idea to get the genetic sequence of the tumor
我们的想法是
and then make a vaccine which is personalized,
测定肿瘤的基因序列
within a few weeks.
并在几周内制成个性化疫苗
CA: Is it fair to say
CA:我可以说
that almost all of the significant things that happen to us biologically
我们几乎所有生理性的重大变化
are actions done by proteins,
都是蛋白质引起的吗
and that it’s mRNA that actually makes those proteins?
所以其实是mRNA制造了这些蛋白质吗
If you can understand the language of mRNA,
那么如果我们能理解mRNA的语言
you can get involved in pretty much everything of significance
是不是就几乎能
to the well-being of a human being.
调节所有有关人体健康的环节呢
ÖT: Exactly.
ÖT:是这样的
So in principle,
信息结构
the information instructions are in the DNA.
基本上储存在DNA中
These have to be translated into protein
这些信息需要翻译成蛋白质
because proteins are the actors which keep our cells alive
因为蛋白质是维持我们细胞
and our organism functional.
生命活动和生理功能的执行者
And the way how to translate
而将DNA编码物质
what is instructed by DNA
翻译成蛋白质的过程
in a fashion that it is well-timed
是以一种有序的方式
and happens at the right places, into protein,
在适当的位置进行的
there is messenger RNA.
需要信使RNA参与
Messenger RNA sort of instructs when
信使RNA在某种程度上决定着
and how much of which protein has to be built
维持机体生命活动
in order to ensure the activity of our body.
所要合成蛋白的时间 种类和数量
CA: So you can almost think of DNA
CA:那是不是可以说
as the sort of The Oxford English Dictionary of Language.
DNA就像牛津英语大词典
It sort of sits there as the reference point.
它作为一种参考而存在
But for the actual living work,
但是实际要做的
the living work of language out there in the world instructing things,
以语言指导世上事物发展的工作
that is done by mRNA.
是由mRNA完成的
UŞ: Yeah, absolutely, it is possible.
UŞ:是的 很有道理
So the human cells,
在人体细胞中
exactly, DNA is like a library.
DNA确实就像图书馆
If you have the platform for the messenger RNA therapy,
如果能构建出信使RNA疗法工作的平台
you can deliver any type of message
就能传递任何信息
and the body cells ensure that the message is translated
体细胞会确保信息
into the right protein.
翻译成正确的蛋白
ÖT: A high advantage of mRNA is that it is so versatile.
ÖT:mRNA的突出优势在于它的多功能性
You can deliver all sorts of messages, as Uğur has called them.
就像Uğur说的那样 它可以用于传递各种信息
On the one hand, you can deliver the blueprint for the protein
另外 你可以递送
which you want to be produced in this cell.
需在胞内合成的蛋白的设计图
But you can, with the same molecule,
你可以把
also design into the mRNA
有关这个蛋白质分子合成方式的指令
instructions how this protein should be built,
和有关细胞内蛋白质合成场所的指令
instructions to the protein factories of the cell.
都编写进mRNA中
So you can define
这样就能决定
whether you want this protein to be built in high amounts
是否需要大量合成某个蛋白
or for a long duration,
是否要进行长时间合成
how the pharmacokinetics of this protein should be in the cell.
并决定目标蛋白在细胞内的药代动力学参数
CA: So talk about January of last year
CA:下面讲讲去年一月份的事儿吧
when you first heard about this new virus that was spreading.
那时你们初次听说新型病毒开始传播
UŞ: So in the end of January,
UŞ:在一月底
we read a paper published about this outbreak in Wuhan,
我们读到了一篇讲述武汉新冠疫情爆发的文章
and realized that this new outbreak
意识到这是一种全新的流行病毒爆发
has all features to become a global pandemic,
并很有可能发展为全球大流行
and we were concerned that our life will change,
我们担心生活会因此改变
that this outbreak could change the fate of mankind.
担心这次疫情爆发会改变人类的命运
And we knew that we have this messenger RNA technology,
我们所掌握的信使RNA技术
which was actually developed for personalized cancer therapy.
实际上是为个性化的癌症治疗方案开发的
But the idea of personalized cancer therapy
不过个性化癌症治疗的理念
is to get the genetic information of the patient
是取得病人的基因信息
and then make a vaccine as fast as possible.
再尽快研制出疫苗
And we had now the same situation.
这和我们当下面临的情况是一样的
It was not a personalized vaccine,
这次不再是要开发对人的个性化疫苗了
but it was a genetic information of the virus,
而是获取病毒的基因信息
which was released two weeks earlier.
这些信息两周前已经公布了
And so this genetic information of this virus was available,
现在我们获得了病毒的基因信息
and our task was to make a vaccine as fast as possible.
下面的任务就是尽快研制出疫苗
And the challenge at that time point was,
当时面临的挑战在于
there was almost nothing known about this virus.
我们几乎对这种病毒一无所知
It was a completely new virus.
这是一种全新的病毒
We had some assumptions
关于这病毒编码的分子中
which target which molecule encoded by the virus
哪个才是正确的靶点
could be the right target.
我们做出了一些推测
That means the molecule which can be used
这个分子应该能用于
to precisely engineer an immune attack.
准确地引发免疫攻击
This is the spike protein.
图上是刺突蛋白
It is on the surface of the virus.
它存在于病毒表面
And there’s not only one copy of the spike protein on the virus,
这里展示的并不是病毒上的一个刺突蛋白
but multiple in the range of 20, 25, 30 spike proteins.
而是大概20 25或30个刺突蛋白的集合
And the spike protein has two functions.
刺突蛋白有两种功能
One function is really to enable that the virus sticks to human cells.
一是使病毒能附着在人体细胞上
For example, it sticks to cells in the human lung.
比如说它能附着在人体肺部细胞上
And the second is that the spike protein acts as a key.
二是发挥钥匙的作用
It allows the virus to enter into the cells.
使病毒能够进入细胞内
Our goal was to engineer an immune response.
我们的目的是引发免疫应答
CA: You’ve got a slide
CA:你们有一张展示
showing the T-cell response to your vaccine.
T细胞对疫苗免疫应答的幻灯片
How long were you into the process before you saw this
在观察到可见的免疫应答发生之前
and you saw, wow, there really is a spectacular response going on here?
你们投入了多长时间研究呢
ÖT: We saw this already in the animal models
ÖT:我们先前已在动物模型中得到了这个结果
because they are also meant to assess the immune response.
动物实验现象也是用于评价免疫应答的
And what is shown on this slide
左侧幻灯片展示的是
is on the left side, a lymph node
一个未接受RNA处理
from a setting where there was no RNA treatment or RNA vaccination.
未接种RNA疫苗的淋巴结样本
And on the right side, a lymph node of a treated organism,
右侧是经过处理后从动物体内
in this case, an animal.
分离出的淋巴结样本
And the localization matters.
靶向定位是重要的问题
And we have constructed our RNA nanoparticles,
因此我们构建了RNA纳米粒
with encapsulation into lipids
并包裹在脂质体中
such that the mRNA is carried into lymph nodes,
这样mRNA就能仅被运送进淋巴结
not just anywhere, it’s carried into lymph nodes
而非其他部位
and in the lymph nodes
在淋巴结中
it reaches a very special cell type, which is called dendritic cells,
它作用于一种叫树突状细胞的特殊细胞
and these cells are coaches of the immune system.
这些细胞是免疫系统的训练官
So they are the generals which call all the different special forces
是号令不同免疫细胞的首长
and train them on the wanted poster of attacker.
并负责训练它们呈递攻击者的样本
And it’s very important that you reach those cells.
因此作用于这种细胞非常重要
On the right side, you can see the effect of reaching those cells.
右图反应了作用于这些细胞的结果
You see many red dots.
你能看到很多小红点
And these are T-cells which have been trained to recognize the antigen,
这些是经过训练的T细胞
the protein which mRNA has delivered,
它们能识别mRNA递送来的蛋白抗体
and they have expanded to a sort of army of clones, so to say.
并复制出一只克隆体大军
So all these red dots are an army
这些红点就表示
which only knows one goal,
一支只有一个目标的军队
namely attacking this specific protein encoded by the mRNA.
那就是进攻mRNA编码的这种特定蛋白
CA: So it’s really stunning
CA:你们花几天的时间
that within just a few days of your looking at this sequence
研究一段来自近百年来人类遇到的
of the most dangerous pathogen to hit humanity in 100 years, I guess,
最危险病原体的基因序列
that you were able to come up with these these candidate vaccines.
之后就能构想出候选疫苗 实在令人震惊
And I guess over the course of the next weeks and months,
我想随后的几周或几个月的过程中
you had growing confidence that, wow, this was going to work.
你们对疫苗有效的信心不断积累
It wasn’t until the results of the human trials came out,
直到去年十一月份
I guess in November of last year,
人体实验结果出来
that you really knew.
你们知道了最终结果
Tell us about that moment.
讲讲那时的情形吧
ÖT: It was a Sunday when we were waiting for these results,
ÖT:那是个周日 我们正在等结果
which are assessed in such trials by an independent committee
疫苗是交给独立的机构进行评估实验的
and Uğur said, “So let’s see how the data will look like.”
那时Uğur说 我们来看看数据情况如何
It was not clear whether it would be a thumbs up or down.
我们还不确定结果是好还是坏
And we were very relieved.
看到数据时我们放松了
And I felt blessed to hear that the vaccine was efficacious
听说疫苗有效时 我感到十分幸运
and it was highly efficacious, over 90 percent.
疫苗有效率非常高 超过了百分之九十
CA: And that more than 90 percent
CA:这里的超过百分之九十的概率
almost disguises the full extent,
我想可以说是最好结果了
because that’s just against any kind of level of infection of COVID.
因为它可以针对各个亚种 各种程度的新冠病毒感染
Severe infection and fatalities were almost completely protected against, I think.
几乎可以完全防止重症感染和染病致死
And it must have been an ecstatic moment for you.
你们那时一定很激动吧
Certainly was for so many people around the world.
为全球人民感到开心
UŞ: Yes, absolutely.
UŞ:当然是这样
So this was a Sunday evening,
那时是周日晚上
and there were a handful of people
有挺多人听说了
knowing that an effective vaccine is existing against this global pandemic.
针对全球流行疾病的有效疫苗问世了
And we were so excited and so happy
我们超级兴奋 开心极了
and we shared of course this information the next day.
第二天就和大家分享了这个消息
CA: So based on what’s happened this time around
CA:基于这段时间发生的事
and the amazing acceleration,
和与其他疫苗的开发相比
compared with any other vaccine development,
极为迅速的进展
I mean, if we were hit by another virus,
如果下次我们再被另一种病毒攻击
could you picture that next time
你们觉得如果疫情需要
we could accelerate the time line further still if need be?
疫苗的研发能够更加快速吗
UŞ: Yes, Chris, this is an excellent question.
UŞ:这是个很好的问题Chris
Actually, the world was not prepared to deal with such a pandemic.
事实上 这次大家都没有做好应对疫情流行的准备
The science and the vaccine developers reacted in an excellent fashion.
科研人员和疫苗研发者做出的响应已经很出色了
And it is incredible and wonderful
在疫情流行期间
that it was possible to come up with an effective vaccine
用不到十二个月研发出有效疫苗
while a pandemic is ongoing, in less than 12 months.
已经非常厉害了
But the challenges that we have at the moment
不过我们这次面临的困难
is that we don’t have sufficient production capacity.
主要是没有足够的生产力
Ideally, we would be prepared the next time,
理想的话 我们下次要做好充分准备
not only to develop a vaccine in light speed,
不仅是要迅速研究出疫苗
but also to to make and distribute the vaccine in light speed.
更是要迅速生产并配发疫苗
So what we need now is an additional element which was not existing,
因此我们现在要做的是发展之前没有的能力
is manufacturing capacity.
即足够的生产力
And idle manufacturing capacity.
符合期待的生产力
We must be bringing us into a position
如果考虑到疫情最初的爆炸式发展
that we can produce 12 billion doses of vaccine,
我们需要尽快开工
if you consider prime boost, within less than six months.
在六个月内生产出一百二十亿支疫苗
And this is technically possible.
从技术层面讲这是可以实现的
So this can be done if governments
如果政府和国际组织愿意投资
and international organizations invest into manufacturing capacity,
提高生产能力
invest into keeping this idle capacity,
维持理想产能
and also come up with a standard time span and process
制定标准时间投入和程序以做出更快响应
to enable even faster response.
这是可以实现的
So we in principle,
综上所述
we might be able to manage to come up with a vaccine
我们是有可能在八个月内成功开发疫苗
and start distribution in even less than eight months.
并完成疫苗配给的
CA: What does what’s happened in this last year tell you now
CA:经历过去年的事件后
about the prospects for using mRNA to treat cancer
关于利用mRNA治疗癌症等疾病的应用前景
and indeed other diseases?
你们有没有新的想法
Where is this heading?
大概会往什么方向发展呢
UŞ: What we have now is now an approved technology
UŞ:我们掌握的技术已经得到了认可
and a first approved product.
并生产了第一批得到认可的产品
The development of the coronavirus mRNA vaccine shows the power
mRNA新冠病毒疫苗的研发过程
of the mRNA
显示了mRNA的潜力
and it shows also the safety of this approach.
也显示了此疗法的安全性
And it shows
这为
that it opens up a door for new technology
新科技和新疗法的开发
and for new type of treatments.
打开了一扇大门
And the mRNA molecules
我们现在有超过十种
that we are currently using for cancer,
针对癌症的
we have more than 10 products now in clinical development,
mRNA分子相关品种在进行临床试验
are diverse against different types of cancer.
它们是针对不同癌症的
We are very confident that the success that we have generated now
我们有信心让这次
for our infectious disease vaccines
开发感染性疾病疫苗取得的成功
can be continued with our cancer immunotherapies.
在癌症免疫治疗领域再次实现
CA: Some people may hear this
CA:有人听了这个
and say this is just another type of drug that’s coming along.
可能会认为这不过只是一种新上市的药物罢了
But I think on the mental model you’re talking about,
但从你们描述时的心情来看
we should think about it as much more revolutionary than that,
我们应该把这当做与传统药物不同的
that typically a drug, a traditional drug, kind of changes the chemical environment,
革命性地聚焦于改变整个机体化学环境的
the background of an entire area of the body.
全新产品
But your —
那么
If you understand the language of mRNA,
如果你们掌握了mRNA的语言
you can do something much more specific and precise.
就能做出更为个性化的精准调整了
Is that something like a fair way to think about it?
这么说有道理吗
ÖT: Yes, indeed.
ÖT:是这样的
It could be the next revolution
这将成为生物医药领域的
in the biopharm landscape.
一次巨大变革
UŞ: At the end of the day, disease is a situation
UŞ:说到底 疾病其实是一种
where the communication between cells is disturbed.
细胞间通讯遭到破坏的状态
So, for example, autoimmune disease is a disease condition
举个例子 自身免疫疾病
where immune cells attack normal cells.
是由于免疫细胞攻击正常细胞而发生的
And indeed, we could engineer messenger RNA therapies
我们确实可以通过与攻击细胞的免疫细胞传递信息
which could teach the immune system to stop to do that,
开发出一种能够阻止免疫系统攻击体细胞
without inhibiting the whole immune system,
但不损伤免疫系统正常功能的
by just communicating with the immune cells which are attacking.
信使RNA疗法
We could be precise and more specific.
我们可以更加精准 更具针对性
CA: The success of BioNTech over the last couple of years,
CA:鉴于BioNtech过去的几年所实现的成功
I think the value of the company has rocketed
以及发生的这些令人惊叹的事情
because of the amazingness of what’s happened.
公司的身价一定飞速上升了吧
I mean, it’s made you both extremely wealthy,
这让你们变得相当富有
I think you’re both billionaires now.
你们现在都是百万富翁了吧
How have you been able to respond to that?
你们是怎样处理这种情况的呢
Sometimes so much money brings its own problems with it.
有时大量的财富也会带来很多问题
Is that proving a distraction?
这会分散你们的精力吗
ÖT: For a company
ÖT:对于一家
which sees innovation as its core mission,
以创新为核心理念的公司来说
too much money is never a problem.
钱再多也不是问题
Because innovation really means that you have to invest.
因为实际上创新就意味着资金投入
Otherwise, we will only have two type of products
否则我们可能就只能研发两种产品
or incremental improvement
或者只能不断提升现有技术
for solutions of high medical need.
以解决大量的临床需求
UŞ: It really gives us the chance to transform our company.
UŞ:财富给了我们改进公司的机会
So we were when we started —
如果将我们现在的情况
When we compare ourselves with the situation we had
与2020年初相比
at the beginning of 2020,
就会发现
we had a number of product candidates in clinical testing,
我们以前有正在临床试验中的大量候选品种
but the company required funding every year or every second year.
但是公司每隔一到两年还是需要一大笔资金
Now we have a situation to really address the full vision of the company.
现在我们可以完全实现公司最初的愿景了
We started BioNTech
我们以提供创新技术
with the idea really to provide novel treatments
解决未满足的高临床要求为理念
wherever there is a high unmet medical need.
创立了BioNtech
And we now can do that in a much larger and broader scale,
如今我们能够以更大更广泛的规模完成这个目标
and bring our innovations faster to patients.
并更快地将创新科技应用到临床领域
CA: You are both from families who immigrated from Turkey to Germany.
CA:你们的家庭都从土耳其移民到德国了
Immigrants have faced hard times
在包括德国在内的许多国家
in many countries including Germany.
移民者的生活过得都不容易
And yet you, I think,
不过我认为
have helped transform the debate about immigration,
你们通过你们实现的巨大成功
in Germany and elsewhere,
和在德国创立的这家世界领先的公司
just by the extraordinary success that you’ve achieved
帮助德国和其他地区
creating this world-leading company in Germany.
改变了对移民的偏激看法
Do you take joy for the impact you may have had on this issue?
你们会为自己在这方面带来的影响感到自豪吗
UŞ: It is somehow surprising
UŞ:听到这些我们有点惊讶
because the way how we do science,
因为我们搞科研的方式
and how we recognize how people work effectively in teams together
和评价一起辛勤工作的团队成员的方式
is not to us from where the person is coming,
并不关心一个人来自哪里
but what the person can contribute.
而是关心这个人能作出多少贡献
So in our company,
因此在我们公司
we have employees from more than 60 countries.
员工们来自六十多个不同的国家
So we are an international group of scientists,
我们是一个国际性的科学家团队
as any other research institution.
就和其他任何一个研究机构一样
So we have to recognize that globalization really helps
要知道国际化的组织能更好地帮我们
to bring people, scientists or other engineers into one place,
将科学家和其他工程师等人才聚集到一起
allowing to work together
让我们在一起工作
and to come with extraordinary results.
取得出色的成果
For us, this is somehow surprising that this is seen as special.
这竟被认为是特殊的情况 我们感到很惊讶
It is just the way how excellent research and science work.
这只是优秀的科学研究团队理应具备的特质
CA: Well, it’s extraordinary and inspiring what you’ve achieved,
CA:你们的成就非常出色且很有启发意义
and it’ll be very exciting to track progress over the coming years.
很高兴能一起聊这几年来你们的进展
Thank you so much. Thank you.
非常感谢你们 谢谢

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视频概述

来听听科学家夫妇对mRNA疫苗发展的介绍和对科研工作的认识

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视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdqnAhNrqPU

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