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窥探前激进战士的内心 – 译学馆
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窥探前激进战士的内心

Inside the mind of a former radical jihadist | Manwar Ali

今天站在你们眼前的我是一个努力生活的人
Today I stand before you as a man who lives life to the full
站在你们面前
in the here and now.
但曾有很长一段时间
But for a long time,
我为死亡而活
I lived for death.
我年少时相信
I was a young man who believed
所谓圣战即代表了武力及暴力
that jihad is to be understood in the language of force and violence.
我试着透过力量和侵略修正他人的错误
I tried to right wrongs through power and aggression.
我深切地担心正在受苦受难的人们
I had deep concerns for the suffering of others
并强烈地想帮助他们解脱
and a strong desire to help and bring relief to them.
我认为暴力性的圣战是一种高贵
I thought violent jihad was noble,
骁勇的行为
chivalrous
也是帮助他人的最佳解药
and the best way to help.
在我们族群之中很多人
At a time when so many of our people —
特別是年轻人
young people especially —
处于激化的边缘
are at risk of radicalization
他们加入像基地组织
through groups like al-Qaeda,
伊斯兰国和一些其他的组织集团
Islamic State and others,
因为这些组织主张的是
when these groups are claiming
他们可怕的暴行才是真正的圣战
that their horrific brutality and violence are true jihad,
我得说他们对圣战这两字的概念有误
I want to say that their idea of jihad is wrong —
大错特错
completely wrong —
就像是那时的我所认为的一样
as was mine, then.
圣战代表要讲一个人的全力
Jihad means to strive to one’s utmost.
这包含了各层面的功修
It includes exertion and spirituality,
自我净化
self-purification
以及奉献精神
and devotion.
圣战代表了透过学习 智慧
It refers to positive transformation
和纪念真主的正向转型
through learning, wisdom and remembrance of God.
圣战这一词概括了前述的所有概念
The word jihad stands for all those meanings as a whole.
圣战有时的确通过战争形势
Jihad may at times take the form of fighting,
但只是有时候
but only sometimes,
存在严格的条件
under strict conditions,
规则与限制之下
within rules and limits.
伊斯兰教相信
In Islam,
一种行为带来的好处 必须大于其带来的伤害和残酷
the benefit of an act must outweigh the harm or hardship it entails.
更重要的是
More importantly,
《古兰经》中对于圣战或战争的描述
the verses in the Koran that are connected to jihad or fighting
不能抵消经文中对于宽恕
do not cancel out the verses that talk about forgiveness,
仁爱
benevolence
以及耐心的价值
or patience.
现在我相信地球上沒有任何地方
But now I believe that there are no circumstances on earth
会允许暴力性的圣战
where violent jihad is permissible,
因为这只会带来更重大的伤害
because it will lead to greater harm.
但如今圣战的定义被劫持去了
But now the idea of jihad has been hijacked.
它被歪曲为代表了暴力性的斗争
It has been perverted to mean violent struggle
每当穆斯林遇到困难
wherever Muslims are undergoing difficulties,
就会出现恐怖主义
and turned into terrorism
由基地组织 伊斯兰国等激进伊斯兰教徒发动起来
by fascistic Islamists like al-Qaeda,
从而变成恐怖事件
Islamic State and others.
但我现在了解到
But I have come to understand
真正的圣战代表尽全力
that true jihad means striving to the utmost
去捍卫并活出真主所喜爱的特质
to strengthen and live those qualities which God loves:
诚实 可信
honesty, trustworthiness,
同情 仁爱
compassion, benevolence,
可靠 尊重他人
reliability, respect,
和坦率
truthfulness —
这都是众人所共享的价值观
human values that so many of us share.
我出生在孟加拉国
I was born in Bangladesh,
但多数时间在英国长大
but grew up mostly in England.
也在那里求学
And I went to school here.
我父亲是位学者
My father was an academic,
我们家因为他的工作来到英国
and we were in the UK through his work.
1971 年我们在孟加拉的时候 一切风云变色
In 1971 we were in Bangladesh when everything changed.
独立战争严重地制压我们
The War of Independence impacted upon us terribly,
造成家家对立
pitting family against family,
邻里反目成仇
neighbor against neighbor.
我在12岁时就经历了战争
And at the age of 12 I experienced war,
家道中落
destitution in my family,
22位亲戚惨死
the deaths of 22 of my relatives in horrible ways,
同时我的哥哥被谋杀
as well as the murder of my elder brother.
我见证了杀戮
I witnessed killing …
当时街上都是啃食尸体的动物
animals feeding on corpses in the streets,
大家都饥饿难耐
starvation all around me,
还有可怕的暴行肆虐——
wanton, horrific violence —
愚蠢无谓的暴力行为
senseless violence.
我那时候还小
I was a young man,
为各种想法而着迷
teenager, fascinated by ideas.
我想学习
I wanted to learn,
但我整整 4 年都无法就学
but I could not go to school for four years.
独立战争以后
After the War of Independence,
我父亲坐了两年半的牢
my father was put in prison for two and a half years,
我每个礼拜都去探视
and I used to visit him every week in prison,
并在家自学
and homeschooled myself.
我父亲在1973年被释放
My father was released in 1973
他以难民的身份逃往英国
and he fled to England as a refugee,
我们之后也跟着他去了
and we soon followed him.
我那年 17岁
I was 17.
这些经历
So these experiences gave me
让我清楚地意识到世界上的暴行和不公平
a sharp awareness of the atrocities and injustices in the world.
而我产生了强烈的愿望──
And I had a strong desire —
深至心坎的强烈的愿望──
a very keen, deep desire —
要修正错误
to right wrongs
并且帮助受压迫的人民
and help the victims of oppression.
当我在英国读大学时
While studying at college in the UK,
我遇到了一些人 他们告诉我怎样引导愿望和帮助之心
I met others who showed me how I could channel that desire
通过信仰来实现
and help through my religion.
而我就被激进化了─—
And I was radicalized —
这足以将暴力合理化
enough to consider violence correct,
在一些情況下 甚至认为这是一种美德
even a virtue under certain circumstances.
所以我参加了阿富汗的圣战
So I became involved in the jihad in Afghanistan.
我想保护阿富汗的穆斯林人口对抗苏联军队
I wanted to protect the Muslim Afghan population against the Soviet army.
我认为这就是圣战
And I thought that was jihad:
我的天职
my sacred duty,
将被真主奖赏
which would be rewarded by God.
我成了传教者
I became a preacher.
我是英国暴力战争的先锋
I was one of the pioneers of violent jihad in the UK.
我参与招募
I recruited,
集资和训练
I raised funds, I trained.
我将真正的圣战
I confused true jihad
和法西斯伊斯兰教徒所提出的偏差圣战搞混了
with this perversion as presented by the fascist Islamists —
这些人假借圣战之名
these people who use the idea of jihad
将他们对一统天下的欲望合理化
to justify their lust for power, authority and control on earth:
这种歪曲思想 被激进伊斯兰组织延续至今
a perversion perpetuated today by fascist Islamist groups
像是恐怖主义基地组织 伊斯兰国等
like al-Qaeda, Islamic State and others.
大概有15 年的时间
For a period of around 15 years,
我除了在阿富汗
I fought for short periods of time
还在喀什米尔和缅甸
in Kashmir and Burma,
做短暂的攻击
besides Afghanistan.
我们的目标是驱除侵略者
Our aim was to remove the invaders,
解放受压迫的人
to bring relief to the oppressed victims
当然还有建立伊斯兰版图
and of course to establish an Islamic state,
一个由真主统治的哈里发国
a caliphate for God’s rule.
我公开地做着这些事
And I did this openly.
我没有触犯任何一条法律
I didn’t break any laws.
我以身为英国人为荣──
I was proud and grateful to be British —
至今我仍然如此
I still am.
过去我对这里 对我的国家没有敌意
And I bore no hostility against this, my country,
对非穆斯林也没有敌意
nor enmity towards the non-Muslim citizens,
我现在还是没有
and I still don’t.
在阿富汗的一次战斗中
During one battle in Afghanistan,
我和一些英国人 与一位 15 岁的阿富汗男孩
some British men and I formed a special bond
产生了特別的关联
with a 15-year-old Afghani boy,
他叫阿布杜拉
Abdullah,
是个纯真 讨喜的孩子
an innocent, loving and lovable kid
永远都是那么愿意提供协助
who was always eager to please.
他很穷
He was poor.
像他一样的男孩在营区 都负责卑微的工作
And boys like him did menial tasks in the camp.
但他看起来心满意足
And he seemed happy enough,
但我不禁想到
but I couldn’t help wonder —
他的家长一定非常想念他
his parents must have missed him dearly.
他们也一定曾为他 梦想过更好的未来
And they must have dreamt about a better future for him.
这是战争下的受害者
A victim of circumstance caught up in a war,
残酷的社会条件
cruelly thrust upon him
无情地袭击到他身上
by the cruel circumstances of the time.
一天我在战壕捡起 一个未爆的迫击炮
One day I picked up this unexploded mortar shell in a trench,
并将其放在一个 临时搭建的土屋实验室
and I had it deposited in a makeshift mud hut lab.
然后就出去打一场 毫无意义的小战斗──
And I went out on a short, pointless skirmish —
斗争一直以来都毫无意义──
always pointless,
几个小时后我回来 男孩已经死了
And I came back a few hours later to discover he was dead.
他试图取出里面的炸药
He had tried to recover explosives from that shell.
然后就被炸死了
It exploded, and he died a violent death,
被我认为无害的那个装置 炸得灰飞烟灭
blown to bits by the very same device that had proved harmless to me.
我开始问
So I started to question.
他的死有什么意义吗
How did his death serve any purpose?
为什么他死了我却活了下来
Why did he die and I lived?
日子继续
I carried on.
我在喀什米尔打仗
I fought in Kashmir.
我也为菲律宾
I also recruited for the Philippines,
波士尼亚和车臣招募新成员
Bosnia and Chechnya.
然而疑问越来越多
And the questions grew.
之后在缅甸
Later in Burma,
我遇到罗兴亚人战士
I came across Rohingya fighters,
他们几乎都是青少年
who were barely teenagers,
在丛林里长大成人
born and brought up in the jungle,
他们带着机枪和手榴弹
carrying machine guns and grenade launchers.
我遇到两个 13 岁 彬彬有礼 口气平顺的孩子
I met two 13-year-olds with soft manners and gentle voices.
他们看着我
Looking at me,
求我带他们去英国
they begged me to take them away to England.
他们只是单纯想上学──
They simply wanted to go to school —
这对他们来说是梦想
that was their dream.
我的家族中──
My family —
跟他们同龄的小孩──
my children of the same age —
都住在英国
were living at home in the UK,
正常上学
going to school,
生活安稳
living a safe life.
我不禁纳闷
And I couldn’t help wonder
不知道有多少次这样的年轻男孩彼此
how much these young boys must have spoken to one another
表露过他们对这种求学生活的渴望
about their dreams for such a life.
时局下的受害者
Victims of circumstances:
这两个男孩
these two young boys,
袒露身子 睡在地上 仰望繁星
sleeping rough on the ground, looking up at the stars,
被他们的领导者恶意利用
cynically exploited by their leaders
只为了满足他们 对权利和虚荣的欲望
for their personal lust for glory and power.
我不久就见到这些男孩
I soon witnessed boys like them killing one another
因为敌对群体的纷争而自相残杀
in conflicts between rival groups.
而且到处都一样──
And it was the same everywhere …
阿富汗 喀什米尔 缅甸
Afghanistan, Kashmir, Burma,
菲律宾 车臣
Philippines, Chechnya;
零零散散的军阀势力 以圣战的名义 让脆弱的孩子们
petty warlords got the young and vulnerable to kill one another
自相残杀
in the name of jihad.
穆斯林对抗穆斯林
Muslims against Muslims.
既不是对抗入侵者或占领者
Not protecting anyone against invaders or occupiers;
也没有解救受压迫的人民
not bringing relief to the oppressed.
小孩被利用
Children being used,
恶意剥削
cynically exploited;
人们死于冲突
people dying in conflicts
而我以圣战之名支援这些纷争
which I was supporting in the name of jihad.
时至今日这些情況还是存在
And it still carries on today.
我感觉到我在海外
Realizing that the violent jihad
所参与的暴力圣战
I had engaged in abroad
跟我内心所想的完全不同
was so different —
我所经历的 和我认为的神圣天职
such a chasm between what I had experienced
有极大的分歧
and what I thought was sacred duty —
我得反思我在英国这里的行为
I had to reflect on my activities here in the UK.
我得承认我的传教
I had to consider my preaching,
招募 集资
recruiting, fund-raising,
训练
training,
还有最重要的 激进化──
but most importantly, radicalizing —
也就是送年轻人去战死
sending young people to fight and die
这些事──
as I was doing —
大错特错
all totally wrong.
我在 80 年代中期参与暴力圣战
So I got involved in violent jihad in the mid ’80s,
从阿富汗开始
starting with Afghanistan.
而这一切止于 2000 年
And by the time I finished it was in the year 2000.
我那时沉浸在圣战之中
I was completely immersed in it.
我身边的人都支持我
All around me people supported,
赞同我
applauded,
甚至认为这是我们以他们的名义所做的事 为此叫好喝彩
even celebrated what we were doing in their name.
不过当我后来觉醒时
But by the time I learned to get out,
也就是在2000年 我的圣战梦彻底破灭之时
completely disillusioned in the year 2000,
如今已经 15 年过去了
15 years had passed.
哪里出错了
So what goes wrong?
我们忙着谈论美德
We were so busy talking about virtue,
并因为理想而盲目
and we were blinded by a cause.
我们并没有给自己机会 发扬美善的性格
And we did not give ourselves a chance to develop a virtuous character.
我们告诉自己 这是在为受苦受难的人奋斗
We told ourselves we were fighting for the oppressed,
但这是场赢不了的战争
but these were unwinnable wars.
我们成为死神的工具
We became the very instrument through which more deaths occurred,
为了少数残暴者的自私自利
complicit in causing further misery
制造更多的悲剧
for the selfish benefit of the cruel few.
随着时间流逝
So over time,
过了好一阵子
a very long time,
我睁开双眼
I opened my eyes.
我开始有勇气
I began to dare
面对真相
to face the truth,
开始思考
to think,
开始面对艰难的问题
to face the hard questions.
我与我内心的灵魂接触
I got in touch with my soul.
那我学到了什么
What have I learned?
参加暴力圣战的人
That people who engage in violent jihadism,
坠入极端主义的人
that people who are drawn to these types of extremisms,
其实并没有与我们相差甚远
are not that different to everyone else.
我相信那些人是可以改变的
But I believe such people can change.
他们能重拾本心
They can regain their hearts and restore them
能用人性价值疗伤止痛 填补心中的缺口
by filling them with human values that heal.
当我们忽略现实
When we ignore the realities,
我们会毫无疑问且不加批判地 接受被告知的东西
we discover that we accept what we are told without critical reflection.
我们也会忽视 众所珍爱的天赋和优势
And we ignore the gifts and advantages that many of us would cherish
即便那仅占了生命的一小部分
even for a single moment in their lives.
我做了我认为对的事
I engaged in actions I thought were correct.
但我现在开始质疑 我怎么知道我知道什么
But now I began to question how I knew what I knew.
我无止境地要众人接受真理
I endlessly told others to accept the truth,
但我忘了质疑它的合适性
but I failed to give doubt its rightful place.
这些被人改变的信念 根深蒂固在我的经历中
This conviction that people can change is rooted in my experience,
也在我人生的旅途中
my own journey.
透过广泛阅读
Through wide reading,
反省
reflecting,
沉思 自我认知
contemplation, self-knowledge,
探索发现
I discovered,
我意识到伊斯兰主义者的世界是虚伪的 不公正的
I realized that Islamists’ world of us and them is false and unjust.
通过反思所有我们主张的内容里不确定的因素
Through considering the uncertainties in all that we had asserted,
反思我们认为不可侵犯
to the inviolable truths,
毋庸置疑的事实
incontestable truths,
我产生了更深入细微的理解
I developed a more nuanced understanding.
我发现在这充满歧义与矛盾的世界里
I realized that in a world crowded with variation and contradiction,
愚昧的传教者
foolish preachers,
也只有像过去的我 这种愚昧的传教者
only foolish preachers like I used to be,
看不出他们用来维护权威的神话和虚构故事之间的自相矛盾
see no paradox in the myths and fictions they use to assert authenticity.
我理解了自我认知
So I understood the vital importance of self-knowledge,
政治意义
political awareness
及深入广泛理解我们所作所为的必要性
and the necessity for a deep and wide understanding
及这些会如何影响他人
of our commitments and our actions,
是何其的重要
how they affect others.
所以我今天向大家恳求
So my plea today to everyone,
特别是真诚相信伊斯兰圣战的人
especially those who sincerely believe in Islamist jihadism …
要拒绝武断性的权威
refuse dogmatic authority;
放下愤怒 仇恨 暴戾之气
let go of anger, hatred and violence;
学习修正错误
learn to right wrongs
不为残酷无情 不公正 无用的行为找一丝一毫的理由
without even attempting to justify cruel, unjust and futile behavior.
去创造一些美丽实用的事物吧
Instead create a few beautiful and useful things
它们会恒久流传
that outlive us.
带着爱意去感受
Approach the world, life,
世界还有生活
with love.
学着发现
Learn to develop
或培育你的心灵
or cultivate your hearts
在别人身上或这个世界发现真善美
to see goodness, beauty and truth in others and in the world.
如此一来 我们为了自己
That way we do matter more to ourselves …
为了他人
to each other,
为了社会
to our communities
对我来说 也为了真主 就尽了份力
and, for me, to God.
这就是圣战──
This is jihad —
我真正的圣战
my true jihad.
谢谢大家
Thank you.
(掌声)
(Applause)

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视频概述

视频讲述了一个学者对于宗教以及宗教的自我维护的故事

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视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwpiI18TBdE

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