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怎样与抑郁的朋友交往

How to connect with depressed friends | Bill Bernat

在我的人生中有一次让我感受
The one conversation that uplifted me more
最深的谈话
than any other in my life
那是和一位女士的谈话 她告诉我
was with a woman who told me how,
在几天前
a few days earlier,
她是如何开着她的牧马人吉普到美国大峡谷
she drove her Jeep Wrangler to the edge
的悬崖边
of the Grand Canyon
坐在那里 加速引擎
and sat there, revving the engine,
想着开向悬崖的
thinking about driving over.
虽然我当时有严重的社交恐惧
Even though I had severe social anxiety,
但在那次谈话中 我却很轻松
in that conversation,I was totally at ease.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
她告诉我 在导致那事发生的前几天和几个月里
She told me what was going on in her life
她的生活中发生的事情
in the days and months leading up,
那个时候她的想法是什么
what her thoughts wereat that exact moment,
她为什么想死 她为什么没有去死
why she wanted to die, and why she didn’t do it.
我们时不时点点头 微笑着
We nodded and half-smiled,
然后 轮到我说说自己
and then it was my turnto talk about my journey
是怎么到一个山城医院 精神康复楼的
to a dining tablein the hygienic community area
公共区域的餐桌用餐的
of the mental health wingof a mountain-town hospital.
我吃了太多的安眠药 他们对我进行了一段时间的治疗之后
I took too many sleeping pills, and after they treated me for that,
他们说:“嘿
they were like,” Hey,
如果你来我们的精神病房做做客
we would love it if you would be our guest
那就太好了
in the psych ward.”
(笑声)
(Laughter)
我们开玩笑说她的自杀(可比我的问题严重)可以做成更好的明信片
We joked that her suicide would have made a way better postcard.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
我们还讨论了工作
We talked shop.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
她不介意我的重度抑郁
She allowed me to be deeply depressed
同时 使我与另外这个人(她)有了真正心灵上的联系
and have a genuine connectionto another person, simultaneously.
有生以来第一次 我被鉴定为抑郁症患者
For the first time, I identified as somebodyliving with depression,
而且我对此感觉挺好的
and I felt good about it —
就像 我还是挺适合得抑郁症的
like I wasn’t a bad person for it.
现在 想像一下 桌旁坐着的人
Now imagine one of the people
有一位是你的家庭成员
at that table was a member of your family
或 一个好朋友
or a close friend.
你会自在地和他们交谈吗?
Would you be comfortable talking to them?
如果不是在医院
What if instead of the hospital,
而是座在你家餐桌旁告诉你 他们很抑郁呢?
they were at your kitchen table and told you they were really depressed?
世界卫生组织
The World Health Organization
表示 抑郁症是世界性的
says that depression is the leading cause
导致健康欠佳和障碍的主要原因
of ill health and disability worldwide,
影响着3.5亿人
affecting 350 million people.
美国国家心理卫生研究所的报告指出
The National Institute of Mental Health reports seven percent
在一年间 有7%的美国人都遭受着抑郁症的折磨
of Americans experiencing depression in a year.
所以抑郁症很常见
So depression is super common,
基于我的经验
yet in my experience,
大多数人不愿意和抑郁症患者交谈
most folks don’t wantto talk to depressed people
除非我们假装很高兴
unless we pretend to be happy.
乐观的表现是很适合休闲互动的
A cheerful facade is appropriatefor casual interactions.
抑郁症患者可以要求在他们的
A depressed person can ask for extra syrup
南瓜拿铁咖啡里多放点糖浆
in their pumpkin spice latte
而不用解释他们为什么需要
without explaining that they need it
因为他们陷入了灵魂无尽的黑暗之中
because they’re trappedin the infinite darkness of their soul
而且已经失去了所有逃离的希望
and they’ve lost all hope of escape —
(笑声)
(Laughter)
再一次
again.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
抑郁不会减少一个人和他人联系的欲望
Depression doesn’t diminish a person’s desire
减少的是他们与他人交谈的能力
to connect with other people, just their ability.
所以不论你的想法是什么
So in spite of what you might think,
和抑郁的朋友或家人交谈
talking to friends and familyliving with depression
会非常简单 而且也许会很有趣
can be really easy and maybe even fun.
不是像在一个秘密聚会与Lady Gaga在脸书上发自拍的那种乐趣
Not like, Facebook-selfie-with-Lady-Gaga-at-an-underground-party fun —
我说的是那种
I’m talking about the kind of fun
每个人都很轻松地享受他人的陪伴
where people enjoyeach other’s company effortlessly.
没人感到尴尬
Nobody feels awkward,
也没有人指责悲伤的人毁了假日
and no one accuses the sad person of ruining the holidays.
为什么分歧会存在?
Why does this chasm even exist?
一方面 你认识抑郁症患者
On the one side, you have people living with depression
他们的行为可能令人气恼 或令人困惑
who may act in off-puttingor confusing ways
因为他们的脑子里在打仗
because they’re fightinga war in their head
没有人看得见
that nobody else can see.
另一方面
On the other side,
大多数人看到分歧
the vast majority of people look across the chasm
摇头叹息
and shake their heads,
就像在说你怎么这么抑郁?
like,”Why you gotta be so depressed?”
你也许在生活中能识别出这样的分歧
You may recognizea divide like this in your life.
你想建造一座桥梁去跨越它吗?
Do you want to build a bridge across it?
你可能不想建造这座桥
You may not want to build a bridge —
而这是一个完全正当的选择
and that’s a totally valid choice.
或者你愿意建立一个更紧密的联系
Or maybe you’d like to builda stronger connection,
但是你有很多问题和担忧
but you have a lotof questions and concerns.
你可能就是我说的那种桥梁好奇者
You’re what I might call”bridge curious.”
笑声
(Laughter)
关于为什么有些人避开抑郁症患者 下面是一些可能的原因
Here are some possible reasons why some of you may avoid depressed people.
你可能会担心
You might be afraid
如果他们抑郁的时候 你和他们谈话
that if you talk to somebody while they’re depressed,
你忽然要对他们的健康负责一样
you’re suddenly responsiblefor their well-being.
你又不是菲尔博士
You’re not expected to be Dr. Phil.
友好一点就可以了 就像 艾伦
Just be friendly — more like Ellen.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
你可能担心 不知道说什么
You may worry that you won’tknow what to say,
而且每次想说点什么 都会变得很尴尬
and every attemptat conversation will be awkward,
唯一使你感到自在的时候
and the only time you’ll feel comfortable
就是当双方都放弃谈话 看手机的时候
is when you both just give up on talking and stare at your phones.
话语并不是最重要的
Words are not the most importantthing to focus on.
你可能害怕看到自己影子
You might fear seeing your shadow. Hey,
如果你曾经成功地逃脱
if you have beensuccessfully outrunning
你个人情感的恶魔
your personal emotional demons,
那太棒了
that’s awesome.
祝你一切称心如意
May the wind be at your back.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
你可能是世界上最开心的人
You can be the leastwoo-woo person in the world
但是仍然和抑郁症患者有联系
and still connect with depressed people.
你可能听说过 抑郁是会传染的
Maybe you’ve heardthat depression is contagious,
你害怕被传染
and you’re afraid of catching it.
随身带一些洗手液
Bring some hand sanitizer.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
你很有可能会感受到人类关系的快乐
You’re much more likely to catchthe joy of human bonding.
也许你眼中的抑郁症患者是不同的
Maybe you seedepressed people differently.
你认为他们是有缺陷的或不完美的
You think of them as flawed or defective.
很多大学研究表明
Multiple university studies have shown
得A的同学更有可能患双向情感障碍
that A students are more likelyto have bipolar condition.
我们的大脑并没有被破坏或被损坏
Our brains aren’t broken or damaged,
他们只是工作方式不同
they just work differently.
我花了好几年去思考为什么乐天派就不会得抑郁症
I spent a lot of years thinking happy people just don’t get it.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
最终 我不再区别对待乐天派了
I did eventually stopdiscriminating against happy people —
(笑声)
(Laughter)
我八岁时就开始和抑郁做斗争
I began battling depressionwhen I was eight,
几十年过去了 令我惊讶的是
and decades later, to my surprise,
我开始赢了
I started winning.
我曾大部分时间都感觉痛苦 改变成
I shifted from being miserable much of the time
去享受生活
to enjoying life.
我在患有双向情感障碍的情况下 过得很好
I live pretty well with my bipolar condition,
我还克服了一些其他精神健康疾病
and I’ve overcome some othermental health conditions
比如 过度饱食 上瘾 社交恐惧
like overeating, addictionand social anxiety.
所以我生活在分歧的两边
So I live on both sides of this chasm.
基于我的经验
And I’m offering some guidance
我给大家提供一些指导
based on my experience
帮助你们建立一座桥梁 跨越分歧
to help you build a bridge across it
如果你愿意的话
if you want to.
这并不是很难的科学
It’s not hard science,
但是我努力研究过
but I worked
很多患有抑郁症的人
with a lot people I know who’ve lived with depression
去改善这些意见
to refine these suggestions.
首先 有些事情是你想避免的
First up, some thingsyou might want to avoid —
也就是一些“不能做的”事
some”don’ts.”
最让人气恼的一句话就是
One of the most off-puttingthings you can say is,
“克服它”
“Just get over it.”
主意太棒了 太喜欢了 可惜我们已经想到过了
Great idea — love it, it’s just we already thought of that.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
抑郁 就是缺乏克服的能力
The absence of the ability to just get over it is depression.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
(掌声)
(Applause)
我们能在身体里感受到抑郁
We feel it in our bodies —
对于我们来说 是身体上的
it’s a physical thing for us.
医学上来说 它与
And medically it’s no different
判断一个人受伤的脚踝 或癌症没有什么不同
from telling someonewith a broken ankle or cancer,
克服它
“just get over it.”
别硬要修理我们 我得说
Don’t be hell-bent on fixing us. Like,
谢谢 但不必了
thank you, but…
这种压力会使我们抑郁患者觉得我们让你们失望了
the pressure can make us depressed people feel like we’re disappointing you. Also,
有些事情使人感觉不错
things that makesome people feel better
对于我们来说 可能没用
may not work for us.
吃一个冰激凌并不能治愈临床性抑郁
You can’t cure clinical depressionby getting ice cream…
这很不幸 因为那就像是在做梦
which is unfortunate, becausethat would be living the dream.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
不要认为否定的回应是针对你个人的
Don’t take a negative response personally. So,
我有一个朋友 他一年前
I have a friend who, about a year ago,
给我发短信 说 他很孤单很抑郁
messaged me that he was reallyisolated and depressed.
我给一些建议让他去做一些事
And I suggested some things for him to do,
他说 不 不 坚决不同意
and he was like,”No, no and no.”
我很生气
And I got mad, like,
他竟敢不接受我伟大的智慧?
how dare he not embrace my brilliant wisdom?
(笑声)
(Laughter)
以后我记得 每次我抑郁的时候
And then I rememberedtimes I’ve been depressed,
我是如何以为我所有的未来都是注定要失败的
and how I thought I was doomedin all possible futures,
或每个人突然都很恨我 之类的事
or everybody suddenly hated me,and things like that.
有多少人告诉我事实不是那样的可我当时听不进去
It didn’t matter how many peopletold me otherwise —
我那时并不相信这些人
I didn’t believe them.
所以我让我的朋友知道我很在意
So I let my friend know I cared,
而且我并不是针对某个人
and I didn’t take it personally.
不要让幸福感方面的小缺失吓到你
Don’t let a lack of bubblyhappiness freak you out.
这并不是鲨鱼攻击
It’s not a shark attack.
“我的朋友很伤心 给海岸警卫队打电话”
“Call the coast guard, my friend is sad!”
(笑声)
(Laughter)
我们可能同时很伤心又很开心
We can be sad and OK at the same time.
我要再强调一次
I’m going to say that again,
因为在我们的社会里 我们学到的是完全不同的
because in our society, we’re taught the opposite,
所以这是违反直觉的
and so it’s counterintuitive.
人们可以同时感受到伤心和开心
People can be sad and OK at the same time.
所以 有些情绪会感染你 有些不会
So some of these things may apply to you personally, some may not.
拿走有用的
Take what’s useful.
记住 你不一定需要联系
And remember, you don’t have to connect.
如果你想的话
If you want to,
下面是一些可能对你有帮助的建议
here are some suggestions that may help —
一些“可做的事情”
some”dos.”
用你自然的声音跟我们说话 好吗?
Talk to us in your natural voice, right?
(笑声)
(Laughter)
你不需要
You don’t need to put
用伤心的声音 只是因为我们很抑郁
on a sad voice because we’re depressed —
当你和一个感冒的人说话的时候 你也不打喷嚏
you don’t sneeze when you’re talkingto somebody with a cold.
(笑声)
(Laughter)
乐观并不无礼
It’s not rude to be upbeat.
你就是你
You can be you, OK?
如果你想和我们聊天
If you make an offer to be there for us,
请清楚地表明你能做的和不能做的
clearly state what you can and can’t do.
我告诉他们:“嘿 什么时候打电话 或短信都行
I have told people,”Hey, call or text any time,
但我可能不会当天
but I might not be able to get back to you
回复你”
that same day.”
如果你不提议去做什么 那完全没有问题
It’s totally cool to not make an offer,
或者做个有清楚限制条件的提议 也完全可以
or to make a narrow offer with really clear boundaries around it.
给我们一种控制感 就像
Give us a sense of control. Like,
得到我们的同意
get our consent.
不久前我有一个朋友
I have a friend who, a while back,
当我开始有抑郁的苗头
when I was having a depressive episode,
跟我说 我想每天都找你报个到(确保你情况安好)
reached out and said,”Hey, I want to check in with you.
我能每天和你打电话吗?
Can I call you every day?
或者每天给你发短信 周末给你打电话?
Maybe text you every dayand call later in the week?
”看你怎么方便 都行”
What works for you?”
通过得到我的许可 她让我完全充满了信心
By getting my permission,she earned my complete confidence
并且直至今日 仍是我最好的朋友
and remains one of my best friends today.
最后一条建议:
And my last suggestion is:
互动那些和抑郁无关的事
interact about not depression,
也就是:正常的事情
aka, normal stuff.
我有一个朋友 大家都很关心他
I have a friend who,when people were worried about him,
大家都会打电话问他是否想去逛街
they would call and askif he wanted to go shopping
或帮他们清理车库
or help them clean out their garage.
抑郁的朋友可能成为一个免费的劳动力
Your depressed friends could be a good source of free labor —
笑声
(Laughter)
我想表达的是
What I’m really getting at is,
在某种程度上 邀请他们帮助你的生活
invite them to contributeto your life in some way,
即使是一件小事
even if it’s as small
比如 邀请你去看一场电影
as asking you to go see a movie
这部电影是你想要去电影院看的
that you wanted to see in the theater.
所以有很多是可以做的 不可以做的 还有很多不确定的
So that’s a lotof dos and don’ts and maybes,
这不是一个限定的清单
and it’s not by any meansa definitive list.
需要记住的是 抑郁症患者在指导原则里
The thing to rememberis that they’re all grounded
是理性的
in one guiding principle.
这就是那位在吉普车上的女士
It’s what allowed the womanin the Jeep Wrangler
竟然不费吹灰之力便使我踏上康复之路的原因
to start me on the path to recoverywithout even trying.
她和我说话 让我感觉像我很适应这种谈话
She talked to me like I belonged
而且在那一刻 正是当时那种状态的我帮助了她
and contributed exactly as I wasat that moment.
如果你与抑郁症患者交谈
If you talk to a depressed person as
就好像他们的生活像你的生活一样有价值
if their life is just as valuable,
紧张 而且美丽
intense and beautiful as yours,
那么你们之间就没有必要建一座桥梁
then there’s no needto build a bridge between you,
因为你们已经合上了那道鸿沟
because you’ve closed the chasm.
专注于谈话而不是词汇
Focus on that instead of your words,
这也许是他们生活中最令人开心的谈话
and it may be the most upliftingconversation of their life.
对于你关心的人它会有什么作用呢?
What could that dofor somebody you care about?
对你的作用又是什么呢?
What could it do for you?
谢谢谢谢
Thank you.
(掌声)
(Applause)

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视频概述

不要害怕和抑郁的人说话,不要顾虑说话的内容是否会伤害抑郁的人,只要有一个积极乐观,抑郁的人就会愿意和你聊天

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收集自网络

翻译译者

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审核员@XG

视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B43f89Y9f-A

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