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该讲述怎样的故事?|一位记者的意义探寻之路

How Dolly Parton led me to an epiphany | Jad Abumrad

I want to tell you about my search for purpose as a journalist
我要讲讲 我的记者生涯意义探索之旅
and how Dolly Parton helped me figure it out.
而多莉·帕顿又是怎么帮我找到意义的
So I’ve been telling audio stories for about 20 years,
我从事有声故事行业有20年了
first on the radio and then in podcasts.
从电台一路做到网络播客
When I started the radio show “Radiolab” in 2002,
我入行是在2002年 从Radiolab广播节目开始
here was the quintessential story move we would do.
我们制作的有声故事遵循着一定的流程
We’d bring on somebody —
首先是邀请来某位嘉宾
Steven Strogatz: It’s one of the most hypnotic and spellbinding spectacles in nature,
这是自然界的壮景之一 令人陶醉其中 无法自拔
because, you have to keep in mind, it is absolutely silent.
你必须牢记 四下充斥着绝对的寂静
Jad Abumrad: Like this guy, mathematician, Steve Strogatz,
比如说这位 数学家Steve Strogatz
and he would paint a picture.
他描绘了一幅图景
SS: Picture it. There’s a riverbank in Thailand, in the remote part of the jungle.
想象一下 这是泰国的一处河畔 位于偏僻的丛林中
You’re in a canoe, slipping down the river.
你坐在一只独木舟中 漂流而下
There’s no sound of anything,
耳畔寂静无声
maybe the occasional, you know, exotic jungle bird or something.
偶尔有异域飞鸟的鸣叫传来
JA: So you’re in this imaginary canoe with Steve,
你随着Steve的叙述 乘上独木舟漂流
and in the air all around you are millions of fireflies.
成千上百的萤火虫在周身飞舞
And what you see is sort of a randomized starry-night effect.
你开始想象无数无序而璀璨的星点
Because all the fireflies are blinking at different rates.
萤火虫明灭不定 正如繁星
Which is what you would expect.
这也比较符合一般人的想象
But according to Steve, in this one place,
Steve继续描述着 在这个地方
for reasons no scientist can fully explain —
受到不知名因素的影响
SS: Whoop.
呜呜
Whoop. Whoop.
呜呜 呜呜
With thousands of lights on and then off, all in sync.
数以千计的光点同步地亮起 熄灭
[Music and electric sounds]
[配乐和电子音效]
JA: Now it’s around this time that
差不多就是在这时候
I would generally bring in the beautiful music, as I just did,
我要负责给故事配上美妙的音乐
and you’d start to get that warm feeling.
你开始体会到温暖的感觉
A feeling, that we know from science,
这种感觉 用科学语言描述
kind of localizes in your head and chest and spreads through your body.
萌生于头脑和胸腔 逐渐蔓延到全身
It’s that feeling of wonder.
这就是惊奇
From 2002 to 2010, I did hundreds of these stories.
从2002到2010年 我给数百个故事加过音效
Sciency, neurosciency, very heady, brainy stories
科学向 神经科学向 各种刺激烧脑的故事
that would always resolve into that feeling of wonder.
总是一步步引出听众的惊奇
And I began to see that as my job, to lead people to moments of wonder.
我开始认为 我的工作就是带领人们走进惊奇时刻
What that sounded like was:
听起来就像是
[Various voices] “Huh!” “Wow!” “Wow!”
[抽冷气] [惊叹] [惊叹]
“That’s amazing.”
“太神奇了”
“Whoa!” “Wow!”
[惊叹] [惊叹]
JA: But I began to get kind of tired of these stories.
但是我逐渐厌倦了这些故事
I mean, partially, it was the repetition.
部分意义上 这些故事总是重复的
I remember there was a day I was sitting at the computer, making the sound of a neuron.
还记得有一天 我正坐在电脑前制作神经元的声音
[Crackling sound]
[碎裂声]
You know, take some white noise, chop it up, very easy sound to make.
只需要剪辑几段白噪音 做起来不难
I remember to thinking, “I have made this sound 25 times.”
我开始想 “这声音我做了25次了”
But it was more than that —
不只声音是重复的
there was a familiar path to these stories.
这些故事的脉络也是重复的
You walk the path of truth, which is made of science, and you get to wonder.
随着真实的小径一路向前 科学引领你走向惊奇
Now, I love science, don’t get me wrong.
别误会 我爱科学
My parents emigrated from a war-torn country, came to America,
我的父母受战争所迫 流亡到美国
and science for them was, like, more their identity than anything else,
科学对他们来说高于一切
and I inherited that from them.
我深受他们影响
But there was something about that simple movement from science to wonder
但是 故事中从科学到惊奇的简单跨越
that just started to feel wrong to me.
让我感觉有什么不对
Like, is that the only path a story can take?
故事只能是这样的吗?
Around 2012,
差不多在2012年
I ran into a bunch of different stories that made me think, “No.”
大量形形色色的故事让我得出了答案 “不”
One story in particular, where we interviewed a guy who described
有个故事我尤其印象深刻 那位嘉宾讲述了
chemical weapons being used against him and his fellow villagers in the mountains of Laos.
他和乡亲在老挝山区遭遇化学武器袭击的故事
Western scientists went there,
后来西方科学家去了那里
measured for chemical weapons, didn’t find any.
检测化学武器残留 但是一无所获
We interviewed the man about this.
我们采访了那位嘉宾
He said the scientists were wrong.
他说科学家们错了
We said, “But they tested.”
我们说 “但他们检测过了”
He said, “I don’t care. I know what happened to me.”
他说 “我才不管 我遭遇了什么我还不清楚吗?”
And we went back and forth and back and forth,
整场对话都这样 来来回回
and make a long story short,
最后 长话短说
the interview ended in tears.
采访在泪水中落下了帷幕
I felt …
我觉得……
I felt horrible.
我觉得太可怕了
Like, hammering at a scientific truth, when someone has suffered.
不管不顾 把科学事实强加给一个万分痛苦的人
That wasn’t going to heal anything.
这样做什么都治愈不了
And maybe I was relying too much on science to find the truth.
也许我太过依赖于用科学探寻事实
And it really did feel, at that moment,
当时我切实感受到
that there were a lot of truths in the room, and we were only looking at one of them.
面前分明有无数个事实 但我们死揪着其中一个不放
So I thought, “I gotta get better at this.”
于是我想 “我得变得更好”
So for the next eight years,
在接下来的8年里
I committed myself to doing stories where you heard truths collide.
我不断地制作事实相互冲突的故事
We did stories about the politics of consent,
我们讲述政治共识的故事
where you heard the perspective of survivors and perpetrators whose narratives clashed.
幸存者和加害者口中的故事冲突碰撞
We did stories about race: How black men are systematically eliminated from juries,
我们讲述种族的故事 黑人如何被一步步禁止进入陪审团
and yet, the rules that try and prevent that from happening only make things worse.
而试图消除这种现象的规章却起到了相反的作用
Stories about counter-terrorism, Guantanamo detainees,
我们讲述反恐的故事 讲述关塔那摩拘留犯
stories where everything is disputed.
我们讲述这些故事 争议充斥其间
All you can do is struggle to try and make sense.
我们只能在故事中不断纠结 尝试理清头绪
And this struggle kind of became the point.
而这份纠结逐渐变成了这件事的重点
I began to think, “Maybe that’s my job.
我开始想着 “也许我就该干这个
To lead people to moments of struggle.”
将人们引上纠结之路”
Here’s what that sounded like:
听就来就像是
[Various voices] “But I see — I, like –“
“但是 我…… 可是……”
“Uh, I –” [Sighs]
“呃 那个……我……” [叹气]
“Well, so, like, huh –“
“好吧 那么……”
“That, I mean, I –“
“我是说……我……”
“You know — golly — I –” [Sighs]
“你要知道……天啊……我……” [叹气]
JA: And that sigh right there.
就是这种叹气声
I wanted to hear that sound in every single story,
我希望在每个故事中都能听到人们这样叹气
because that sound is kind of our current moment, right?
因为这叹气就如同当下的缩影 对吧
We live in a world where truth is no longer just a set of facts to be captured,
在现在的世界 真实不再是事实的罗列
It’s become a process.
真实变成了一个过程
It’s gone from being a noun to being a verb.
从名词变成了动词
But how do you end that story?
但是 接下来故事要怎么收尾呢?
Like, what literally kept happening is we’d be, you know, telling a story,
你知道的 我们毕竟是在讲故事
cruising along, two viewpoints in conflict,
随着故事发展 观点碰撞
you get to the end and it’s just like —
故事走向尾声 接着应该是……
No, let me see.
不 让我想想
What do I say at the end?
要怎么结尾呢?
Oh, my God.
哦 天啊
What do you — how do you end that story?
要怎么…… 故事该怎么收尾呢?
You can’t just like happily-ever-after it,
可不能用什么 “永远幸福快乐地生活下去”
because that doesn’t feel real.
这种结尾太假了
At the same time, if you just leave people in that stuck place,
但同时 我们也不能让听众一直纠结下去
like, “Why did I just listen to that?”
他们会觉得 “我到底为什么要听这个”
Like, it felt like there had to be another move there.
一定还有其他的收尾方法
Had to be a way beyond the struggle.
一种走出纠结的方法
And this is what brings me to Dolly.
我就是在这时候遇到多莉的
Or Saint Dolly, as we like to call her in the South.
我们南方人也管她叫“圣多莉”
I want to tell you about one little glimmer of an epiphany that I had,
我去年曾参与制作《多莉·帕顿的美国》九集系列故事
doing a nine-part series called “Dolly Parton’s America” last year.
我要分享一下 我当时体会到的一丝顿悟
It was a bit of a departure for me,
对我来说 我从原来的工作中暂时抽身出来
but I just had this intuition that Dolly could help me figure out this ending problem.
但我直觉 多莉能够帮我解决故事的收尾问题
And here was the basic intuition:
多莉的演唱会是什么样的呢
You go to a Dolly concert.
在多莉的演唱会上
You see men in trucker hats standing next to men in drag,
戴棒球帽的硬派男人旁是穿女装的跨性别男性
Democrats standing next to Republicans,
民主党人和共产党人并肩站着
women holding hands,
女性手牵着手
every different kind of person smashed together.
各种各样的人们齐聚一堂
All of these people that we are told should hate each other
这些本来相互仇视的人们 如今却站在一起
are there singing together.
唱着同一首歌
She somehow carved out this unique space in America,
多莉在美国创造了这独特的一方天地
and I wanted to know, how did she do that?
我想弄明白 她是怎么办到的
So I interviewed Dolly 12 times, two separate continents.
我采访过多莉12次 期间踏上过两块大陆的土地
She started every interview this way:
每场采访 她都用同样的话开场
[Audio]Dolly Parton: Ask me whatever you ask me,
随便你问什么
and I’m going to tell you what I want you to hear.
等下我告诉你我想让你问什么
[Laughter]
[笑声]
JA: She is undeniably a force of nature.
毫无疑问 她有一种质朴的天性
But the problem that I ran into
但系列制作期间我遇上了麻烦
is that I had chosen a conceit for this series
我意识到这个选题
that my soul had trouble with.
和我内心深处的想法是有冲突的
Dolly sings a lot about the South.
多莉的歌经常唱到南方
If you go through her discography,
翻翻她的唱片目录
you will hear song after song about Tennessee.
能看到一首又一首关于田纳西的歌
[Music]DP: [Singing, various songs]#Tennessee, Tennessee…#
[不同歌曲的歌声] #田纳西 田纳西……#
#Tennessee homesick …#
#田纳西 乡愁……#
#I’ve got those Tennessee homesick blues runnin’ through my head.#
#我思念着田纳西 我的家乡 忧愁在脑海奔波……#
#Tennessee.#
#田纳西#
JA: “Tennessee Mountain Home,” “Tennessee Mountain Memories.”
《Tennessee Mountain Home》 《Tennessee Mountain Memories》
Now I grew up in Tennessee,
虽然我在田纳西长大
and I felt no nostalgia for that place.
但我却从没产生过思乡情
I was the scrawny Arab kid
小时候 我只是个瘦巴巴的阿拉伯小孩
who came from the place that invented suicide bombing.
来自一个发明了自杀式炸弹的地方
I spent a lot of time in my room.
我很少出门 基本都呆在家里
When I left Nashville,
离开那什维尔 对我来说
I left.
就只是离开而已
I remember being at Dollywood,
我还记得在多莉山主题公园的时候
standing in front of a replica, replica of her Tennessee Mountain Home.
站在多莉田纳西山间老家的仿造建筑面前
People all around me were crying.
我周围的人都哭了
“This is a…This is a set.
我却暗想 “这不过是个布景
Why are you crying?”
你们哭什么?”
I couldn’t understand why they were so emotional,
我不明白是什么让他们这么动容
especially given my relationship to the South.
尤其是想到我也在南方生活了很久
And I started to honestly have panic attacks about this.
于是我开始感到恐慌
“Am I not the right person for this project?”
“我真的适合做这个项目吗?”
But then …
但是之后……
twist of fate.
阴差阳错
We meet this guy, Bryan Seaver,
我们遇到了Bryan Seaver
Dolly’s nephew and bodyguard.
他是多莉的侄子兼保镖
And on a whim, he drives producer Shima Oliaee and I
他一时兴起 带着制片人Shima Oliaee和我
out of Dollywood,
离开了主题公园
round the back side of the mountains,
顺着山脉的背面
up the mountains 20 minutes,
开车向上走了20分钟
down a narrow dirt road,
穿过一条狭窄的泥泞小路
through giant wooden gates that look right out of “Game of Thrones,”
穿过一扇和《权力的游戏》神似的巨大木门
and into the actual Tennessee Mountain Home.
来到了多莉真正的老屋
But the real place.
货真价实
Valhalla. The real Tennessee Mountain Home.
宛如瓦尔哈拉圣殿
And I’m gonna score this part with Wagner,
这一段我要配上瓦格纳的音乐
because you gotta understand,
你要明白
in Tennessee lore,
在田纳西
this is like hallowed ground, the Tennessee Mountain Home.
这个地方的意义堪比圣地
So I remember standing there, on the grass,
还记得当时 我站在草丛中
next to the Pigeon River,
旁边就是鸽子河
butterflies doing loopty loops in the air,
蝴蝶在空中转着圈飞舞
and I had my own moment of wonder.
我陷入了属于我的惊奇时刻
Dolly’s Tennessee Mountain Home
多莉的田纳西山间老家
looks exactly like my dad’s home in the mountains of Lebanon.
看起来和我父亲在黎巴嫩山间的老屋一模一样
Her house looks just like the place that he left.
她的屋子和我父亲离开的老家一模一样
And that simple bit of layering led me to have a conversation with him
这让我在事后和父亲好好聊了聊
that I’d never had before,
之前我从不知道
about the pain he felt leaving his home.
离开家乡让他有多痛苦
And how he hears that in Dolly’s music.
多莉的歌又是怎样唤起这份乡愁的
Then I had a conversation with Dolly where she described her songs
之后的一次访谈中 多莉将自己的歌称为
as migration music.
移民歌曲
Even that classic song,
哪怕是那首经典的
“Tennessee Mountain Home,” if you listen to it —
《Tennessee Mountain Home》中也能听到
[Dolly Parton “Tennessee Mountain Home”]#Sittin’ on the front porch on a summer afternoon#
#夏日午后 静坐在房前门廊#
#In a straight-backed chair on two legs,#
#歪坐着直背椅 两条椅子腿撑地#
#leaned against the wall.#
#斜靠在屋墙#
It’s about trying to capture a moment that you know is already gone.
它尝试着定格了一个一去不返的时刻
But if you can paint it, vividly,
如果你生动地刻画下这个时刻
maybe you can freeze it in place, almost like in resin,
也许还可以像琥珀一样 将它定格住
trapped between past and present.
定格在过去之后 现在之前
That is the immigrant experience.
这就是移民的经历
And that simple thought led me to a million conversations.
这个观点为我接下来的无数访谈拉开了帷幕
I started talking to musicologists about country music as a whole.
我开始和音乐学家们讨论乡村音乐
This genre that I’ve always felt so
我一直觉得 乡村音乐
having nothing to do with where I came from
和我的家乡毫无关联
is actually made up of instruments and musical styles that came directly from the Middle East.
但实际上 它竟然演变自中东传来的乐器和音乐风格
In fact, there were trade routes that ran from what is now Lebanon
事实上 有好几条商路 曾从现在黎巴嫩所在之处
right up into the mountains of East Tennessee.
一路通向田纳西东部的山区
I can honestly say, standing there, looking at her home,
说实话 站在山间看着多莉的旧宅
was the first time I felt like I’m a Tennessean.
让我第一次感受到 我是个田纳西人
That is honestly true.
这话是真心的
And this wasn’t a one-time thing, I mean,
多莉带给我的顿悟不止这一次
over and over again, she would force me
我曾习惯给万事万物贴上浅薄的标签
beyond the simple categories I had constructed for the world.
而多莉一次又一次让我突破自己的浅薄
I remember talking with her about her seven-year partnership with Porter Wagoner.
我曾和她说到她和波特·瓦戈纳七年的感情经历
1967, she joins his band; he is the biggest thing in country music;
1967年 她加入波特的乐队时 他是乡村音乐顶流
she is a backup singer, a nobody.
而多莉只是个后备歌手 无名小卒
Within a short time, she gets huge;
没过多久 她火了起来
he gets jealous.
波特开始嫉妒
He then sues her for three million dollars when she tries to leave.
当多莉想要离开乐队时 波特向她索赔三百万美元
Now it would be really easy to see Porter Wagoner
用现在的眼光 不难得出结论 波特就是个混球
as, like, a type: classic, patriarchal jackass, trying to hold her back.
典型的大男子主义 就是想拖多莉后腿
But any time I would suggest that to her,
但每次我想这样告诉多莉
like, come on.
比如 嗐
[Audio] This is a guy, I mean, you see it in the videos too, he’s got his arm around you.
这个人 你看视频也能发现 他用胳膊环着你
There’s a power thing happening, for sure.
肯定有权力争夺的意思
DP: Well, it’s more complicated than that.
实际情况要更复杂
I mean, just think about it.
仔细想想
He had had this show for years.
他当时已经演出好几年了
He didn’t need me to have his hit show.
根本不需要我来添砖加瓦
He wasn’t expecting me to be all that I was, either.
他也没想到我后来会这么成功
I was a serious entertainer, he didn’t know that.
我是个认真的艺人 他并不了解我
He didn’t know how many dreams I had.
他也不知道我有多少梦想
JA: In effect, she kept telling me,
事实上 她一直在说
“Don’t bring your stupid way of seeing the world into my story,
“不要把你的世界观强加到我的故事里
because that’s not what it was.
你的看法不是事实
Yeah, there was power, but that’s not all there was.
确实 他当时要比我强势 但故事不只如此
You can’t summarize this.”
不能这样简单概括”
Alright, just to zoom out.
好的 回到正题
What do I make of this?
我从中学到了什么?
Well, I think there’s something in here that’s a clue, a way forward.
我认为 前进的道路就隐藏在多莉的故事中
As journalists, we love difference.
我们记者喜欢差异
We love to fetishize difference.
我们痴迷探索差异
But increasingly, in this confusing world,
但在如今这个纷乱迷惑的社会
we need to be the bridge between those differences.
我们更多地应该成为连通差异的桥梁
But how do you do that?
那么该怎么做呢?
I think for me, now, the answer is simple.
对我来说 答案很简单
You interrogate those differences,
就是 不断地询问 探究差异
you hold them for as long as you can,
尽可能地坚守这些差异
until, like up on that mountain,
直到登上山巅的顿悟时刻
something happens, something reveals itself.
答案终于展现在眼前
Story cannot end in difference.
故事不能用差异冲突结尾
It’s gotta end in revelation.
它应该在启示中落幕
And coming back from that trip on the mountain,
我从田纳西山区回来后
a friend of mine gave me a book that gave this whole idea a name.
一个朋友给了我本书 书里命名了这个想法
In psychotherapy, there’s this idea called the third,
在心理治疗中有个概念叫“第三方”
which essentially goes like this.
简单说明一下就是
Typically, we think of ourselves as these autonomous units.
我们通常都将你我看作一个个独立的单位
I do something to you, you do something to me.
你我之间的事只局限于你我两个个体
But according to this theory, when two people come together
而根据“第三方”理论 如果有两个人
and really commit to seeing each other,
真心想要相互理解
in that mutual act of recognition,
实现了相互认可
they actually make something new.
他们之间就诞生了新的事物
A new entity that is their relationship.
一个新的存在 即他们的关系本身
You can think of Dolly’s concerts as sort of a cultural third space.
你可以把多莉的演唱会理解为文化第三方空间
The way she sees all the different parts of her audience,
她看待不同观众的方式
the way they see her,
和观众看她的方式
creates the spiritual architecture of that space.
在现实中创建了一个精神空间
And I think now that is my calling.
我认为 这就是我现在的使命
That as a journalist,
作为一名记者
as a storyteller,
作为一个讲述者
as just an American,
作为一个美国人
living in a country struggling to hold,
生活在这个纷争不断的国家中
that every story I tell has gotta find the third.
我希望我的每个故事都能找到“第三方”
That place where the things we hold as different
我们肩负的差异将在那里
resolves themselves into something new.
诞生出新的事物来
Thank you
谢谢聆听

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译制信息
视频概述

一位记者的反思:我该讲什么样的故事?用科学给人以惊叹,还是用对话揭露矛盾?意料之外,他在歌手多莉·帕顿的故事中找到了答案。

听录译者

立云

翻译译者

条条大鹿通罗馬

审核员

审核员CH

视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji4sq73W7BM

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