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谷歌2.0:为什么MIT科学家在做新的搜索引擎 – 译学馆
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谷歌2.0:为什么MIT科学家在做新的搜索引擎

Google 2.0: Why MIT scientists are building a new search engine | Danny Hillis

Among other projects and you were doing lots of stuff
在那些项目中你会处理大量的材料
you get involved in some very heady questions
遇到很多头疼的问题
about the origins of truth on the Internet.
去确定网络信息的真实来源
And this is where we’re getting folks,
这是
because they… the work that Danny is describing now
丹尼正在做的工作
in theory ultimately became a venture.
理论上说是一种冒险
– Right? Metaweb. – Yep.
-Metaweb公司是吗 -是的
So that’s right so what I really thought is that
我真正的想法是
what we need to do is have a way
我们需要用一种方式
of representing the knowledge of the world
去呈现世界上的知识
in a way that machines can get out them
机器可以获取这些知识
and take advantage of it.
利用这些知识
Uh-mm…

And that should be shared, everybody should be able to get at it.
知识应该共享 每个人都能够获取
That’s in some sense that if the human knowledge isn’t a shared resource.
从某种意义上说 如果人类知识不可共享
Then what is I think, what if civilization been doing all these years.
那么这些年文明一直在做什么呢
So, uh-mm…
所以 嗯
It created a company that built this database
我们成立了数据库公司
called freebase was free database.
freebase数据库是免费的
Uh-mm…

[Laughter]
[观众笑声]
And…
并且
– Uh-mm… – Never coming.
-嗯 -这样的时代永远不会到来
The…Uh-mm…
啊-嗯
And the company basically took any kind of public knowledge
企业可以获取各种各样的公共知识
that we can get information about anything
我们可以获取任何事情的信息
and put it in a machine readable format.
再转换成机器可读的格式
We were kind of creating it.
我们正在做这件事
With the idea that this is gonna be useful to the world,
我们的愿景是 这对于全世界来说都是有用的
we didn’t really have a business model.
所以我们没有商业模式
Uh-mm… And we started building it up
嗯 我们开始了这个项目
and then it became useful to lots of different people
而这后来对很多人都是有用的
including in particular all the search engines.
尤其是所有的搜索引擎
So eventually Google bought it, of course.
所以谷歌最后收购了Metaweb
And then, I… uh… got Google to agree it
后来 嗯 谷歌同意
keep it open for three years, but…
持续开放三年
they only kept the part that was already open
但是他们只开放已经开放的部分
and they started building it up.
然后他们开始做这个项目
And so now if there’s all the Google has something
如果现在谷歌有这样一个产品
called the knowledge graph which is beyond the evolution of this.
即超出了一般进展的知识图
And it probably has about a hundred billion different entities.
这种知识图可能会有上百亿个不同的叫法
So everybody in this room is in that graph.
那么每一个在场的人都会在那个图上
The building… This building is in that graph.
这栋建筑也会在那个图上
Yeah, I took a screenshot earlier when you’re just Google know your house
我早就截图了 在你用谷歌搜索你的房子
and all of these different.
和其他房子不同之处前
– Yeah, that that’s right. Know your house. – Including this event.
-是的 搜索这个房子 -包括这个项目
So yeah, this event is and…
是的 这个项目
And yeah, so… so….
是的
Anything like a person a place in the vend.
就像把人 地点等事物放在一个自动售货机里
Anything like that is in this huge knowledge base.
任何事物都在一个巨大的知识库里
And they’re all the relationships between them all, so…
他们之间互相联系
When you for instance print out a Google Map
比如说当你打印谷歌地图的时候
that is rendered.
会呈现出相关信息
From the knowledge graph,
从知识图中
so the knowledge graph knows the bus schedules and it knows.
可以知道汽车时间表
You know, the address, the restaurant and the traffic.
地址 餐厅和交通
– Drawing all this information together around the thing – Yeah.
-描述出这件事物的所有相关信息 -是的
– that the searcher cares about. – That’s right.
-这是研发人员关心的 -没错
So the map is just in some sense a custom
所以地图在某种意义上
rendering of a piece of the knowledge graph for your particular purpose.
是根据你的特定主题呈现出来的知识图
Yeah and also by the way,
是的 而且
I don’t know the this doesn’t have any ads on it, but…
我不知道这上面没有广告
the other thing is that the ads are also a lot
可能广告有点多
a lot of knowledge graph about what the products are about.
产品相关的知识图数量众多
You know whether
你知道
you know, it probably has knowledge about… you specifically and so on.
它可能有专门针对你的知识图
So it’s going to be way beyond the kind of public knowledge
所以那将会超出公共资源
Just also, uh-mm… begin probably have very particular private knowledge about people too.
可能会出现一些私人的知识
Now from Google’s perspective,
从谷歌的角度来看
it’s safe to say that this is a quantum leap.
这个巨大突破是安全的
In terms of the original basis of it’s
从它的原始基础来看
sort of citation based search.
这是一种基于引文的搜索
You know, model.
你知道 模型
All of a sudden,
比较突然地是
it is now providing this multi-dimensional search
谷歌现在提供了多维线索
that is drawing in way more richness.
描述更加丰富
Yeah, so that it still does the old kind of search.
是的 我们依然可以使用旧式搜索
So right now, when you let’s say I put in museums of New York.
现在我们来谈谈纽约的博物馆
Museums in New York, well it still does the old keyword search of searching
依然使用旧式关键词搜索纽约的博物馆
for pages that have the word museum
会出现关键词为博物馆
and the phrase New York.
和纽约的网页
But it doesn’t… If you say, uh-mm…mm…
但是如果你说这不是
an exhibition in Manhattan or something,
一件曼哈顿的展览或者什么
but you might have something as a museum in New York.
你却可能搜索到纽约博物馆里的一件东西
That actually didn’t use the word Museum in New York on the page.
实际上不是使用纽约的博物馆这些词
But the knowledge graph knows that Manhattan
但是知识图知道曼哈顿
is in New York.
在纽约
And it knows that, you know, exhibitions are in museums or may know something is a museum
它知道展览或其他物品在博物馆
Even if it doesn’t use the word museum in its title.
即使标题里没有出现博物馆这个词
And so it’s actually able to pick that up even though it’s not.
知识图仍然能选出来
It doesn’t have the keyword.
不用关键词
So that will play into the search results to come up.
也能得到搜索结果
It does a search that’s based on the semantics.
知识库是基于语义学的搜索
And of course that’s very important
这一点是非常重要的
because that kind of knowledge is completely language independent too.
因为那些知识完全独立于语言
So the same knowledge that informs your search in English
所以这些搜索会呈现相同的知识 你的英文搜索
also inform somebody’s search.
和其他语言的搜索
Mandarin or Hindi something like that.
比如普通话和印地语之类的
So the bad news is, so the good news is
那么好消息是
you know, it’s turned out to be really useful.
结果证明这样做是有用的
There are these big representations of knowledge.
因为知识具有很多种表示
But the bad news is the whole idea that being this free open thing
但是坏消息是免费开放
that everybody was going to use
每一个人都可以使用
has actually become really just something
这个想法实际上是
that is a competitive advantage of Google.
让谷歌具有竞争性的一个优势
And now, you know,
现在你知道
other… other search engines and other companies will make their own.
其他的搜索引擎也会做自己的数据库
I’m sure Apples working on it.
我确定苹果正在研发
Amazon and you know every each of the big companies, IBM, Microsoft…
其他大公司还有亚马逊 IBM 微软
You know, they’ll each work on their own database.
它们的运转将依赖于自己的数据库
But I think, so the world could go in one of two directions.
我想世界可以朝两个方向发展
We could either have this serve oligarchy
可以是做数据库服务的寡头
of big companies that have been giant.
这个寡头是顶级大公司
You know, knowledge bases that they use for proprietary advantage.
他们使用数据库是为了专有利益
Or it could flip over,
或者推翻这种情况
and say it becomes a public resource.
让数据库成为一种公共资源
That we could say, we want knowledge to be a public resource.
我们想让知识成为公共资源
Uh-mm. And we want in particular knowledge that’s tied to who said
我们特别想让知识链接到出处
what is this not doesn’t real reason truth.
那并不是理性事实
Remember since who said stop and that becomes then a resource for doing things like
自从被叫停后 这就成为了一种做某些事的资源
sorting out what’s big news
比如整理重大新闻
or deciding what medical treatments.
或者医疗信息
[Mumble]
[喃喃自语]
What effects are in the scientific literature.
在科学著作中会产生什么影响
You know, things things like that really don’t align very well with commercial.
你知道这样做不符合商业规则
Right, and this is where underlay comes in… underlay in many respects
是的 在很多方面底层结构
is your attempt to kind of reclaim this technology
是你试图改造的技术
for the… as the public good that you can initially envisioned it as.
最初设想是为了公共利益
Yeah, it’s… it’s my penance for having solved the other thing.
是的 这是我为解决另一件事所做的忏悔
Well, so I’ve actually stuck on the screen here.
屏幕停留在这里了
I thought there was a very nice paragraph
我这里有一张非常好的图
on the very simple underlay website,
在简洁的网址下方
which basically in written terms explains kind of what
它用书面语解释了
what it’s attempting to do.
底层结构试图做什么
And it says the underlay aggregates statements
底层结构收集说明
and reported observations along with citations of who made them
和报道言论 包括引文的出处
and who published them.
和出版方
For example, it would not contain the bearer assertion
例如不包括以下的持票人言论
that Sudan’s population was 39 million in 2008,
2008年苏丹的人口是三千九百万
but rather that Sudan’s population was provisionally 39 million in 2008
而是截至2008年苏丹的人口为三千九百万
according to the UN statistics division in 2011
根据联合国统计司2011年的数据
referencing students national census as reported
参考苏丹的人口普查
by its Central Bureau of Statistics and as contested by the southern People’s Liberation Movement.
由中央统计局报道 南方人民解放运动提出异议
Yeah, and it would do that in not in those words,
是的 而且不仅可以人为搜索
but in a kind of machine readable.
还可以通过机器读取
Right, so that those could be…
是的
And…
而且
Ultimately, this is…
最终
This version of what you were going at
你正在进行的这个版本
becomes almost a kind of record of all of these observations over time.
几乎可以记录任何时间范围内的言论
And it can be tracked, you know.
而且你知道这是可以追溯的
So if we wanted to get to the heart of,
所以如果我们想要深入的话
let’s say, you know, whether
我们说 你知道
[Mumble]
[喃喃自语]
In one of these hearings, we’ve just watched
在一个听证会里 我们可以观察到
somebody said what are the other we could trace it potentially
有人说我们可以追溯到
back to the first recorded instance.
第一个记录的实例
Yeah, and if you take a problem like that,
是的 如果你有类似问题
I would regard that as an apple occasion of the under light
我想那是一个会使苹果黯淡的场合
just like Google Maps as a drawing a map is, but…
就像认为谷歌地图是画的地图一样
If you take sorting through fake news
如果你对假新闻进行分类
and you know, recognizing them when rumors getting in on control.
当谣言得到控制时再去鉴别它们
In order to do that,
为了实现这个想法
you really need a very complex representation of who’s saying what.
你需要用很复杂的表达才能说清楚谣言的出处
So you can kind of trace well this person said that,
你追溯到是这个人说的
this person said this, this person said that .
这个人说了这个 说了那个
Or you know, New York Times said that.
《纽约时报》说了什么
You know, the Drudge Report said that, you know.
《德拉吉报道》说了什么
Uh-mm…And…So…
嗯 所以
There is something that needs to be built on top of the underlay.
这是在底层结构之上需要做的事情
That is essentially a network of trust for that purpose.
本质上是建立一个信任网络
So, you know, somebody has to say “well okay, I trust New York Times”
有的人会说“好的 我相信《纽约时报》”
when they trust Fox News or vice versa.
或者相信福克斯新闻 或是反过来
Or you know, I and…
你知道
And these would be organizations or individuals with some sort of framework of analysis
这是组织或者个人的分析框架
[Mumble]
[喃喃自语]
that would leverage the underlay and for interpretive purposes
利用底层结构解释主题
And there’s gonna be for different purposes.
还可以服务于不同的主题
I mean, and you know the awful lot of the things that people argue about
我是说 你知道人们讨论最多的事情
I mean, you know is Taiwan, a Province of China
台湾是中国的一个省
Well.
是的
You know, if you’re doing something with the Chinese government,
如果你的主题是中国政府
you’ve got account of this one.
你要作出解释
If you’re doing something with Taiwan,
如果你的主题是台湾
you’re probably not gonna commit, you know.
你也许不会犯错
So for some purposes, it is.
对某些主题而言是这样的
For some purposes, it isn’t.
对某些主题而言不是这样的
And so,
所以
what’s the truth of that?
事实是什么呢
Well, there is an exactly the truth.
事实是这样的
It’s, you know, what’s the purpose? what’s the trust in it? And so on.
主题是什么 事实是什么等等
And in many of these,
在这些事情当中
so I sort of feel like the underlay is
我觉得底层结构
in some sense is a piece of the plumbing that we need
在某种意义上是我们需要的一种探索
to deal with the fact that the amount of information has become overwhelming.
来解决信息泛滥不可阻挡的事实
No human can hold it all in their heads.
没有人的大脑能装下所有信息
No, nobody can be sort of familiar with all the new sources
没有人能熟悉所有新消息来源
or things like that.
或者其他类似的事情
And then, that lets us build these things on top of it
然后我们可以在此基础上进行构造
where computers help us be smarter
计算机让我们更加聪明
in sort of navigate these networks of trust.
建立这些信任网络的导航
And… and so you’re conceiving of this challenge.
你会遇到这样的挑战
Uh…This is in the mid-early odds, right? And…
那就是中期目标实现的可能性 是吧
What was the… you know,
什么是
what was the first Inklings of an approach that technology
这项技术的初步设想
could provide to addressing this
可以提供地址
and to kind of capturing the chain
抓住关键链条
if you will, of custody, of information.
如果你要保管信息
So… so the idea was to build something that basically said
初步设想是建立基本的一致性
what the agreed on what the things you were talking about
在人们讨论的内容
the entities that you were talking about.
与讨论的实体之间
Let people make statements about the relationships between them,
让人们声明他们之间的关系
but then have some provenance of who made those statements.
这些声明就有了出处
So that instead of recording that, you know,
你知道 不是去记录
the glass is sitting on the table you record
玻璃杯在你记录的桌子上
Danny said the glass is sitting on the table on such-and-such a day.
丹尼说那天玻璃杯一直在桌子上
And then, then you want you to have all that information recorded.
你想要记录所有的信息
Then that lets you, first of all, it lets you record the information
首先你可以记录信息
without worrying too much about whether it’s true.
不用太担心这是否属实
– It’s true that I said that, – Right.
-我说的是真的 -没错
uh-mm, which is much easier to determine
这更容易确定
than whether it’s true that the glass is actually on the table.
比判断玻璃杯是否在桌子上更容易
Uh-mm…and…
嗯 还有
But then, it also lets you apply basically your idea of trust afterwards,
你可以用你的信任理念去做出判断
after you get more information about who I am.
在你获取更多关于我是谁的信息后
Or later you find out I’m a liar,
你会发现我是个骗子
or later you find out the class with someplace else
或者以后你会发现它分到其他地方去了
– can weigh those previous recordings against… – Exactly, yeah.
-可以权衡这些记录 -的确是的
So… so it’s sort of… the idea is that
所以我的想法是
what we really need to do
我们真正需要做的是
is we need to separate up two things.
我们要区分两件事
We need to separate the record of what different people said
我们要区分不同的人所说的记录
and who said it the provenance of what was said.
谁是说这句话的出处
And then, separately remember it, separately have in some sense a network of trust,
然后分别记录 分别建立信任网络
which is going to be different for different purposes
这对于不同的主题而言是不同的
Ultimately there’s lots of kinds of knowledge
最终这里会有各种各样的信息
that I think really are fundamentally part of the public common,
我认为这实际上是公共的一部分
the public good.
公共利益
And I hope that those will end up in it
我希望最后是这样的局面
and I think it’s not as complicated as copyright law
我认为这并不像版权法那样复杂
where you know you’re taking the expression
你知道你在哪里做出
of individual artists and things like that.
个人艺术家之类的表达
A fact is a fact.
事实就是事实
It’s not copyright-able truth, you know.
这并不具备版权属性
Somebody figures out that, you know.
有的人会知道
The… you know.
你知道
The geographical location of this building.
这座建筑物的地理位置
You know, that’s… that’s just a truth nobody owns that.
这是一个事实 没人对它有所有权
And…and really it’s everybody’s advantage to show that.
而且这对每个人来说都有好处

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视频概述

Metaweb创始人Danny接受《Big Think》采访,谈知识图的建立、愿景以及被谷歌收购后的发展

听录译者

LilBitch

翻译译者

Muse

审核员

审核员XY

视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmF7KvsldGU

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