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为什么“好”和“坏”是历史上多变的概念 – 译学馆
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为什么“好”和“坏”是历史上多变的概念

Ethan Hawke: Why ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are fickle concepts in history

Why “good” and “bad” are fickle concept in history
为什么“好”和“坏”是历史上多变的概念
Why I think Geronimo is such a wonderful figure
为什么我认为杰罗尼莫是一个如此奇妙的人物呢
He’s unlike Pocahontas,
他不像波卡 洪塔斯
unlike Sitting Bull, unlike Red Cloud,
不像酋长坐牛 不像领袖红云
unlike some really amazing figures.
不像那些真的很惊人的人物
Geronimo is really complicated.
杰罗尼莫实在很复杂
He’s a murderer.
他是个杀人犯
I mean he cut off people’s eyelids and put ants on there.
我的意思是他会切开人的眼皮放上蚂蚁
I mean we’re talking about
我是说我们现在谈的是
– people often love to tell the story of Native Americans
人们总是喜欢讲关于美洲原住民
or any first nation peoples
或任何原住民族的故事
as if they’re Buddhist monks, you know.
就好像自己是和尚
As if it’s the Dalai Lama himself riding a horse, you know.
就好像达赖喇嘛本人骑着匹马
And it’s totally disrespectful to the culture and what it was.
这是对文化和历史真相的大不敬
Whenever you want to make it simplistic
每当一个人想将历史大大地简化
you talk down to people
就会用高人一等的方式对人讲话
and I have found in my experience
我访问过美国为美洲原住民划出的居住地
from visiting reservations and things like that
和类似地方 在那段经历中我发现
they’re just forced into their own pockets and their own communities.
他们被迫挤在自己的一小块地方和自己的部落里
And there isn’t a lot of dialogue.
美国和原住民之间没有多少对话
I’m sure that this book will make many first nation people mad at me
我确信这本书会让很多原住民对我恼火
because that I don’t have the right to appropriate this story.
因为我无权盗用这个故事
And I’m sympathetic and I understand that.
我同情也理解他们的感受
I respect it.
我尊重那种感受
I don’t want to appropriate anybody’s story.
我并不想去盗用任何人的故事
I try to focus the story on the war
讲述故事时我尽量聚焦于战争
and from a historical point of view
站在历史的视角上去讲述
but try to see it from both sides.
试着从双方的立场上去看这段历史
And what I love about using Geronimo is that
我之所以爱用杰罗尼莫这个角色
he’s a very Shakespearian figure.
是因为他是典型的莎士比亚式人物
He’s very complex.
他很复杂
He’s good and he’s bad.
他既好又坏
Cochise is more of a typical hero.
科奇斯更像一个典型的英雄
He was a great great leader
他是一位非常非常伟大的领导者
and one of the last people in that part of the world
他是在他所在的那个区域
that could really unite a large group of people.
最后几位真正能团结起一群人的领袖之一
Geronimo never really united.
杰罗尼莫从未能真的团结起一群人
I mean Geronimo was never even chief for crying out loud.
我是说 杰罗尼莫甚至从来没有组织过抗议
What I love about the book
如果允许我发表看法
if I’m allowed to say such a thing is
我喜欢这本书的原因是
we end before Geronimo ever really becomes famous.
不等杰罗尼莫真的出名我们就结束了
We end the story.
故事就此结束
It follows a lot of bad behavior from white people
之后白人做了很多坏事
and a lot of bad behavior from Mexicans
墨西哥人也做了很多坏事
and a lot of bad behavior from the Apache.
阿帕切人也做了很多坏事
It aspires to be a human, not some kind of white guilt book
它想成为一本关于人而不是关于白人罪恶的书
but a book about history and what happened.
成为一本关于历史关于真相的书
And there’s a lot of wonderful white people who did their best.
有很多伟大的白人尽了他们最大的努力
There’s this guy General Howard.
其中有个霍华德将军
Maybe some people would question me calling him wonderful.
可能有人质疑我说他伟大
In this context he worked for the service of good.
这段故事里他做的是慈善事业
He started Howard University for African Americans.
他为非裔美国人开办了霍华德大学
He took the unwavering equality of mankind
他非常严肃坚定地信奉
part of Christianity extremely seriously.
基督教中关于人类平等的教义
And he was a very serious Christian
他是个严肃的基督教徒
who believed that all men were created equal.
他坚信所有人都生而平等
And so he strove to create that in his life.
所以他的一生都在为此奋斗
He had one arm.
他是独臂
He lost an arm in the Civil War.
南北内战中他失了一只手臂
He’s a very interesting character and one of the white characters.
他性格非常有趣 这是白人的性格特点之一
There’s also some pretty terrible white people obviously.
当然也有很多白人是非常可怕的
And one of the things that I love about studying history is that
我喜欢研究历史的原因之一就是
you see that it’s not like
你知道的 历史不是说
oh, one thing was bad and one thing was good.
噢 这个是坏的 那个是好的
You know the wrong people won certain battles.
你知道的 错的人赢了某些战役
The wrong people won certain elections, you know.
错的人也赢了某些选举
President Grant really did want to do the right thing
格兰特总统是真心想做对的事
by the Native American people
站在美洲原住居民的那一边
but then he lost the next election
但后来他输掉了接下来的选举
and you see why treaties are broken,
然后你就明白 为什么谈判会破裂
elections are lost,
选举会失败
the wrong person gets in power and is not concerned with ethics.
错的人获得了权力却无视伦理道德
I found studying this book really interesting.
我认为研究这本书真的很有意思

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视频概述

伊桑·霍克讲自己关于美洲原住民的书《Indeh》的想法,他认为应该站在历史的角度、从双方的立场去看待历史,去讲述一个还原历史真相的故事。

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视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGANJ081yY4

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