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每个人的抑郁症都不同 我的是这样 – 译学馆
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每个人的抑郁症都不同 我的是这样

Depression is different for everyone. Here's what it's like for me. | #9 of Top 10 2019 | Big Think

每个人的抑郁症都不同 我的是这样
PETE HOLMES: You woke up in a conundrum.
你一醒来就面临一个难题
You were born into a conundrum.
你生来就面临这个难题
And I don’t care how we label it
我不关心我们如何贴标签
or lower our anxiety by going, well, it’s this and it’s not this, and it’s that —
或是通过这样或那样的解释来降低焦虑
let’s just talk about this shared mystery that we’re soaking in.
只来谈谈让我们所有人深陷其中的这件神秘的事
I want to be careful here, talking about depression,
谈论抑郁症的时候我会很谨慎
because I had a friend who was very depressed,
因为我一个朋友曾有非常严重的抑郁症
and I remember talking to him, out of love,
出于关心 我与他讨论过这个话题
trying to explain some of these ideas, some of these ways that we can think
我试图解释我们的想法和思考方式
and interpret our suffering.
解释我们的遭遇
And sometimes when someone is suffering,
有时 对处于抑郁中的人来说
the last thing they want is
他们最不愿听到的是
for you to go, ‘Hey, there’s another way to look at this.’
你说“嘿 可以换个角度看待这件事”
That’s later.
这样说还为时过早
None of this is to be imposed on anybody,
这个观点不适用于每个人
and I don’t want to belittle or just say,
不要轻视抑郁或是说
‘You know your brain is — that’s really, it’s your attachment to your desire to not be depressed that’s causing you–‘
“其实是因为你的大脑在逃避抑郁 所以你才会如此抑郁”
no, none of that.
不 别说这种话
That is not what I’m saying at all.
我可不推荐这么说
We can give space to someone’s depression.
我们可以给他人的抑郁留点空间
We can love them, we can honor —
我们可以爱他们 以他为荣
we can just eat some noodles, we can watch some movies,
我们可以去吃面 看电影
whatever it is.
什么都行
We can just sit and not talk.
只坐坐不说话也行
That’s real stuff.
抑郁是真实存在的
It’s a real —
这是真的……
I don’t know if you call it a disorder, a disease,
不管你称之为失调还是疾病
but it’s happening,
但它正在发生
and we don’t need to coach people through with ideologies.
我们无需用一些思想来指导抑郁者
That being said,
有句话说
if you’re in a place to talk about this,
谈论抑郁症的人
usually when you’re not depressed,
通常不是抑郁症患者
I found it helpful to step inside
我发现审视内心有助于对抗抑郁
what I call the witness.
我把内心称为“见证人”
And other traditions call that your soul.
通常它也被叫做“灵魂”
I believe science might just call it the phenomenon of your base consciousness.
我想科学则称之为你的基本意识现象
If you think about when you were born —
设想一下人诞生之时
I have a baby girl now;
比如我现在有一个女宝宝
she’s not thinking in ideas yet.
她还没有思想
She doesn’t know she’s American.
她不知道自己是美国人
She doesn’t know she lives in California.
她不知道自己住在加州
Just like a ladybug doesn’t know it’s Italian.
就像ladybug不知道自己是意大利籍
You know what I mean?
你知道我的意思吗?
It’s just awareness.
这些都是意识
So she’s just there.
所以她现在还没意识
But slowly over time,
但是随着时间的推移
we build up what Jung and others called the false self.
我们慢慢建立起荣格等人所说的虚假自我
So we have the story of who we are.
这样才有了我们是谁的故事
I’m a man and I’m a comedian
我是个男人 我是个喜剧演员
and I’m a tall man, I have big teeth, and all these things,
我是高个子 我有一口大牙等等
and I like the first two Batman movies,
我喜欢前两部蝙蝠侠电影
and I don’t drink coffee, or whatever it is.
我不喝咖啡等等
So you build up this identity.
此时 你才建立起了自己的身份
And oftentimes, in that identity is
很多时候 在“你”这个身份中
where things like suffering are occurring, sometimes.
痛苦等情况有时会发生
I can’t speak for everybody.
当然不是所有人都如此
But I will say that for me, when I’ve been depressed — and I get depressed.
但是对我来说 当我抑郁时……对 我也抑郁过
I have irrational bouts of anxiety.
我会有一阵不理智的焦虑
I have random FedEx deliveries of despondency.
收个联邦快递都能让我抑郁很久
Just like, “I didn’t order this.
我会想“我才没有买这个
Oh, well, keep the PJs on, cancel everything you’re doing today.
好吧 我要继续穿着睡衣 取消所有当天的行程
It’s time to take a sad shower.”
洗个澡 冲刷一切悲伤”
That happens to me.
这是我的亲身经历
So I’m speaking for me
当然这只是我的个人情况
with full respect to other people’s processes and their experience.
我完全尊重他人抑郁的过程和经历
When I’m depressed,
当我抑郁的时候
if I can get into that quiet space,
我会试着进入一个安静的空间
it’s the space that’s noticing the thoughts.
关注自我思想
So if you think, ‘I’m hungry’ —
假如你想“我饿了”
we always just think that ‘I’m hungry’ is the thought in the animal,
我们总是认为“我饿了”是动物性行为
and then we eat,
饿了就吃
and then it goes, ‘Thank you.’
身体就会说“谢谢”
Who’s talking to who, really?
事实上谁在跟谁说话?
I would say that the thought is talking to your awareness, your base awareness, your witness.
我觉得是思想在和你的意识 基本意识 你的见证人对话
So that’s what’s watching your thoughts.
所以要关注你的思想
And if you can get into that,
如果你这么做
you see how impartial and unswayed by your life circumstance this witness really is.
你就会发现这位见证人面对生活的种种 是多么的公平与坚定
It’s just there.
它就在那里
It’s neutral.
它是中立的
It’s just is-ness.
只不过是大隐无形
It’s just this.
它是无处不在的
And it’s just watching.
需要你去体察
It’s compassionate, it’s involved, it’s invested.
它有同情心 善于参与和投入
But it’s not really as connected and tied to the events of your life story
但见证人和你的虚假自我不同
as you are, as your false self is.
它不会与你生活中的每件事都息息相关
So when those depressions happen,
所以当抑郁发生之时
I found it helpful — and this is something Ram Dass taught me —
拉姆·达斯教会我一个有用的方法:
is instead of identifying with the depression and saying, “I am depressed”
不要认同沮丧 不要告诉自己“我很沮丧”
— although, that is how I might say it to somebody —
虽然我会这样向别人倾诉
what I’m thinking is,
应该想
“There is depression. I am noticing” —
“那里有抑郁情绪 我注意到了”
it’s going to make me cry —
我快哭了
“I’m seeing depression.”
“我看到抑郁了”
And you can almost — it’s not denial.
你几乎无法否认
It’s real and it’s valid.
它是真实存在的
But you’re a little bit less in the quicksand
但有时又让你捉摸不定
and you go, “Wow,” —
你会突然察觉“哇”
This is Ram Dass, he’s like,
拉姆·达斯所说
“I don’t know if people get out of depressions like this one.
“我不知道他能否走出抑郁
Look at this one.
你看他
This is too much.”
那么严重”
But who is noticing it?
但他察觉到自己抑郁了吗?
And Ram Dass asks, is the part of you that’s noticing the depression depressed?
拉姆·达斯问 是不是你内心的某部分察觉到自己深陷抑郁?
Now, I asked my friend that who was depressed, and he said yes.
我问了那位患抑郁症的朋友 他说是的
So not everybody is there, not everybody can get there.
不是每个抑郁的人都是这样 不是每个人都能自己察觉
In my experience,
在我看来
Later he did, by the way.
顺便说一下 后来他也战胜了抑郁
We talked about it later.
我们之后再说这事儿
In my experience, I’ve had success in getting into the place that goes,
对我而言 我已经成功地找到了那位“见证人”
there is an impartial part of me that’s witnessing whatever the feeling is,
找到了那个见证我所有感受的 公正无私的那个我
and I can rest in that.
我可以在那里休息
Ram Dass talks about it being like a candle that’s inside
拉姆·达斯谈到 抑郁症就像心里的一支蜡烛
that isn’t swayed or flickered by the wind.
它不会随风摇曳或闪烁
It’s in a quiet place.
它在一个安静的地方
And when you go in there,
而当你走进去的时候
you don’t resist the depression, you give it space.
你不是在抵抗抑郁 你给了它空间
You observe it, you don’t identify with it.
你观察它 你虽不认同它
You honor it, sometimes you medicate it, sometimes you go to therapy.
但你尊重它 有时吃药 有时接受治疗
I’m not saying we need to sit in a cave and heal ourselves.
我不是说我们需要坐在山洞里自愈
But I am saying that there is some relief to be had in not identifying as,
但是我要说的是 不否认才能放下
“I’m this, I’m sad.”
“我是这样 我很难过”
I do it all the time.
我一直在这样做
“There is sadness.”
“悲伤就在那”
I’m anxious.
我焦虑
“There is anxiety.
“焦虑就在那
Look at Pete, he’s anxious.”
看看他 他也焦虑”
And this is every great spiritual mystic through all time, they’ve all been doing this.
这是所有伟大的精神神秘主义者一直都在做的
Saint Francis called his body his corpse.
圣弗朗西斯称自己的身体为尸体
He was like, ‘I drag my corpse around, my corpse wants to eat.’
他说“我的肉体在地上拖行 它想吃东西”
You know what I mean?
你懂我的意思吗?
I don’t like it because it puts it down.
我不会像他这么说 因为这样太妄自菲薄了
But I just go like — I say to Valerie all the time, I go, “Pete’s frustrated.”
但我总是对瓦莱丽承认“我很沮丧”
You know what I mean?
你懂吧?
Not, “I’m frustrated, this is real.
对啊 “我是很沮丧 这是真的
My parents should — they should listen more,
我父母应该多听倾听我的想法
or, my dad still wants me to be a baseball player.”
我爸爸还是希望我成为一名棒球运动员”
Oh, look at Pete go.
看看我 我做到了
And then you’re there and you’re just like, you’re not being flickered by the wind.
说出来之后 你就不会再随风摇摆
Because that’s always going to be there.
因为那个你就在那儿
And with practice, with meditation, with mindfulness, and with contemplation and study,
通过练习 冥想 正念 沉思和学习
literally reading about it, talking about it like this,
读相关的书籍 像这样谈论它
when we’re in it in real time, not necessarily later
不久后 我们就可以做到和“见证人”一样
— at the beginning, it goes like this. You’re depressed and then later, you look back and go,
一开始 你会很沮丧 但有一天你回过头来说
oh, I think I was still this watching me.
我想我可以审视自己了
And then with practice,
经过练习
when it’s happening, you can go, I can witness this in real time.
当抑郁发生的时候 你会说 我愿意面对
I can go, that’s happening.
我明白 它就这样发生了
It’s a phenomenon.
抑郁是一种现象
It’s real. It’s to be honored, I understand.
它是真实的 我得病了 我知道
But it’s not who I really am.
但那并不是真正的我

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视频概述

抑郁症并不能被简单概括、评判,旁观者永远无法与当事人感同身受。而身为抑郁症患者,我们要做的就是:勇敢地审视自我、审视抑郁症。

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