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器官移植药物能延长寿命吗?

Could an Organ Transplant Drug Help Extend Your Life?

Could this same drug work on people?
这种药物对人类同样有效吗
Researcher Dr. Matt Kaeberlein
研究员Matt Kaeberlein博士
and Cardiologist Dr. Joel Kahn both join us now via Skype.
与心脏病专家Joel Kahn通过Skype连线我们
You say this drug’s an example of a paradigm shift in terms of how we can treat people in anti-aging
您说该药物是在抗衰老方面 一种全新的治疗方式
why is that?
为什么呢
I think that as the field has made a lot of progress
我认为在理解衰老机制方面
in understanding the mechanisms of aging
我们已经取得了长足进步
and we now have a handful of interventions,
已经研发出了很多抗衰老药物
among them, Rapamycin
包括雷帕霉素
that appears to target the biological aging process
它表现出对衰老生理过程的靶向作用
that we will start to see this sort of paradigm shift
我们会关注这种治疗方式的转变
where hopefully, we will spend more effort
有望 在这方面投入更多
on trying to keep people healthy longer by targeting the biology of aging rather
通过靶向的延缓衰老过程 让人们健康长寿
than waiting until people are sick
而不是等到人们生病后
and then trying to treat them one disease at a time.
才每次针对一种疾病治疗
Dr. Kahn, you are all about longevity and the things we can do.
Kahn博士 关于长寿以及人们所能做的 您是专家
When it comes to using something like Rapamycin,
当提到用雷帕霉素等药物抗衰老时
you say not so fast.
您说不会那么快投入运用
I do wanna thank Dr. Kaeberlein as the proud parent
作为这些狗狗的主人
of many puppies in my house,
我很感谢Kaeberlin博士
one of which is in dog heaven now.
其中一只回了汪星
I wish I could have extended one of those five dogs
我本希望能够延长五只中一只的寿命
and I will sign the others up.
之后让其他狗狗也加入
I know I can only sign one up for the dog aging project
但我知道衰老项目只能申报一只狗
so thank you Dr. Kaeberlein.
所以谢谢你kaeberlein博士
You know, I have a longevity center
我有一个长寿研究中心
and I get asked several times a week, can I go on Rapamycin?
我每周都会被问到几次 我能吃雷帕霉素吗
I’d like to live to 120
我想活到120岁
and act like George Burns the whole way.
并且活得像乔治•伯恩斯那样
The question is, is it ready for prime time
问题在于 我们准备好大规模应用了吗
but I’m excited, I just don’t think it’s now.
我很激动 但我认为时间未到
We have one study with 11 people getting Rapamycin over age 70
我们有一项研究 让11位70岁以上的人用雷帕霉素
that looked hopeful
结果看着不错
and a bigger study using, they’re called Rapalogs.
更大的一项研究是用Rapalogs
They’re analogs of Rapamycin
它们是雷帕霉素的衍生物
’cause you don’t wanna jack with something called mTORC2.
因为你不想药物作用于mTORC2
It can raise your blood sugar, make you insulin resistant.
对mTORC2的干扰会导致血糖升高 胰岛素抵抗
I think there’s a lot left to learn.
我认为需要进一步了解的还很多
I want my dog to go a little bit on this before I go on it.
我希望我的狗狗能比我先知道
I think you make a really fascinating point.
你提出了一个有趣的点
I mean, my understanding, and both of you perhaps can comment on this
我的理解是……你俩可以对我的看法发表意见
that there’s a huge community out there
这个研究的受众很多
of physicians and people taking this off label already
有医生 也有已经在超适应症服用药物的人
So I’m just curious about your thoughts on that.
我很好奇 你如何看待这一点?
You know, until you study this,
你知道 研究之后
we know it does effect the immune system even
我们才知道它能够影响免疫系统
at this lower dose of five or six milligrams once a week
甚至只需要每周5到6毫克的低剂量
or one milligram a day but actually it’s a mixed message
或者每天1毫克 但实际情况复杂
’cause it may actually improve some aspects of immune function in the elderly
因为它可能在某些方面提升老年人的免疫功能
who actually will respond more vigorously to a influenza vaccination
如果他们的血液里有少许雷帕霉素
if you have a little Rapamycin in your blood
他们的免疫系统对流感疫苗反应更为强烈
but there’s so many questions about the longterm effects
但雷帕霉素的长期影响仍存在很多疑问
if there’s any aspect on cholesterol, on blood sugar control,
它是否会影响胆固醇或血糖水平
which part of the Rapamycin activity may actually worsen
雷帕霉素的有些作用或许会导致这些情况恶化
so I don’t know, Dr. Kaeberlein,
我不清楚 Kaeberlein博士
you ready to give this to human patients on a more consistent basis?
你准备好让病人更长期用药了吗
I think we’re pretty much in agreement.
我认为我们的观点十分一致
I don’t have any problem with people who self-experiment
我对自身给药实验的病人没有什么疑问
but I also feel like we’re not going to learn anything from that.
但是我也觉得无法从自身给药试验中得到什么
What we really need are controlled clinical trials
我们真正需要的是对照临床试验
to evaluate whether or not Rapamycin or Metformin or intermittent fasting
来评估雷帕霉素或二甲双胍 或者间歇性禁食
really have significant health benefits in the context of the biology of aging.
是否真的在抗衰老方面 对健康大为有益
The one point that I would like
我要提的一点是
to make is I think people tend to be very cautious of a drug like Rapamycin
我认为人们会对雷帕霉素这类药物很谨慎
because of its clinical history
因为这类药物的临床运用史
and the known side effects in organ transplant patients taking high doses of the drug.
以及它对高剂量用药的器官移植病人 已知的副作用
We know that there are side effects associated
我们知道 高剂量的雷帕霉素
with high doses of Rapamycin.
有一定的副作用
I think what we’re learning is that in healthy people taking lower doses of the drug,
我们现在获知的是 如果健康的人低剂量地用药
the risk of side effects is much, much less
副作用的风险就会小得多
and probably the drug can be tolerated fairly well
甚至身体可以对药物产生很好的耐受性
but we absolutely need controlled clinical trials
但我们必须有对照临床试验
to really evaluate whether or not Rapamycin is having the effects in people
来实际评估雷帕霉毒对人体的影响
that we see in laboratory animals.
是否如我们在动物实验中看到的那样
Everyone wants to find the fountain of youth.
每个人都想找到年轻的源泉
The reality is there are many fountains of youth
现实是 年轻的源泉有很多
and we know that people who walk regularly live longer.
我们知道定期散步的人活得更久
We know in good studies that, literally,
也确实有些不错的研究表明
people who eat a handful of nuts every day,
每天吃一把坚果的人
they tend to live longer
他们会活得更久
and I think this is really exciting research
而且我认为这是激动人心的研究
and I’m keeping my mind open towards it.
我对它保持开放的心态
I’m not taking it right now but I’m,
虽然我现在没参与这个研究
Matt, I’m followin’ your studies
但是 Matt 我在关注你的研究
and I may put my dog on it too
我会让我的狗狗也加入其中
and I think it’s interesting when you can get smart people in a room talking about something
我认为一群聪明人聚在一起探讨问题很有趣
and there is hope.
也确实可能成功
But just remember watching right now,
但记得要关注当下
you can get up, go for a walk
你可以起身走动一会儿
and you are engaging in anti-aging.
这样你就是在抗衰老了
Every day you’re making decisions,
每天你都在做决定
a lot of decisions that dictate how well
它们决定你过得有多好
and how long you live so you don’t have
以及你可以活多久
to wait for this research to start your anti-aging program right this minute
所以你不必等待某个研究去开启你的抗衰老计划
but a ton of respect, Matt, for what you’re doing. Yeah, so interesting.
– 但是 Matt 我对你的工作充满敬意 – 是的 非常有趣
Keep it up Dr. Kaeberlein.
坚持下去Kaeberlein博士
And as doctor– And Dr. Kahn as well.
你也是 Kahn博士
Portions, it’s all about those portions.
控制饮食量 这是很关键的
So true. Yeah, you could take–
很对 你可以……
That’s your plate size right there.
你只能吃那个量
You could take the best anti-aging drug in the world that is proven to prolong life
你能服用世上最好的 证实能延长寿命的抗衰老药
but if you eat too much and move too little,
但是如果吃的太多 运动太少
you’re not going to have as long of a life as you want.
你就不能像期望的那样长寿

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视频来源

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