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天才是天生的还是后天养成的? – 译学馆
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天才是天生的还是后天养成的?

Are Geniuses Born or Made?

卡尔·齐默:我们学习干扰大脑的方法,而且我在想
Carl Zimmer: We’re learning ways to perturb the brain and I’m just wondering do you
你认为有没有可能终有一日人类会获得某一种创造力“天性”
think someday that people will be sort of enhancing kind of “natural” creativity
就是我们所说的天才或者这只是白日做梦。
to get people to be more like what we think of as geniuses or is that just not possible?
乔伊 赫希 :我喜欢相信能有一种能把所有人的内在天赋都激发出来的方式
Joy Hirsch: I love the idea of the vision that there’s a way to bring out the genius
而且我希望我们的教育系统能有办法
in all of us. And I wish that there was a way that in our educational system that we
促进每个人创造力发展。事实上我们确实有,而且做得很好。
could develop ways to promote creativity. We do actually. We’re pretty good at it
但是我们还能做更好。我们可以让人们在教育过程中去冒险。
but we could be better. That we could teach people to take risk in education. We could
我们应该更加注重那些不走寻常路的人,我认为我们
value more the person that takes the path that is not the common path. I think we as
这个社会已经很好了,但我们能做的远不止这些。
a society are pretty good at that but we could be a lot better. And I think that that’s
我认为天才们有非常好的学习和思考方法。
one of the values of studying or thinking about genius. It’s a way for us to think
我们值得效仿他们的思考方式,如,“吉,这件事我们还可以想出另一个
更具创造性的点子,我们每个人都有创新精神
about, “Gee, let’s get better at this creative business. Let’s find that creative
我们只需要多一点的动力。”
spirit in all of us. Let’s move forward faster.”
卡尔 齐默:我认为有时人们思考问题
Carl Zimmer: I think sometimes people think about the brain as kind of a shortcut to all
是有捷径的,你懂的, 如果我们能够了解大脑如何处理问题,我们就能
these sorts of problems, you know. If we could just understand the brain then we can just
直达主题,处理问题,不然我们都很容易忘记,你懂的。
go right in there and just fix things directly whereas it is easy to forget that, you know,
是教育改变了大脑
education itself alters the brain.
乔伊 赫希:的确如此所以我认为我们应考虑智力在社会群体中的作用
Joy Hirsch: Exactly. I think that we have to think about brains in the context of our
而且我认为天才,不只涉及到个人与智力
society. One of the things about genius I think it’s not just an individual or just
它还关乎机遇,这涉及到每个人得到机会后能够
a brain. It’s about opportunity. It’s about somebody who is given the pathway to
展现才能想想能展现才能的音乐家,大家认为他们是天才
actually make a contribution. Think of our musicians that most of us would consider geniuses
如巴赫,贝多芬,莫扎特他们的创造力都得到了很好的发展
– Bach, Beethoven, Mozart. These are people that were put in positions that allowed them
我认为,他们的创新精神有多方面因素,而非仅由于智力
to be creative. The creative spirit comes with many thing other than just a brain I
这关乎机遇,资金,态度
think. It comes with opportunity. It comes with resources. It comes with attitude. Again
我想在重申一次我的观点,不需要把天才限定到个人,把他们分离出去
I like the idea of not thinking of it as something that targets an individual and separates them
我们是整体一致的我们有所有他们身上具有的品质

but something that joins us together as a quality that belongs to all of us.
卡尔 齐默:认为天才与普通人不一样是正常的
Carl Zimmer: Well because it is true that when people talk about geniuses they are other.
因为他们整日异想天开
They’re almost freakish.
乔伊 赫希:的确如此
Joy Hirsch: Exactly.
卡尔 齐默:他们可以把自己想象成任何人,我们连想都想不到
Carl Zimmer: They’re like what is it like to be that person. I can’t even imagine.
他们痴迷于此
There’s a fetish to it.
乔伊 赫希:的确如此,态度决定了人们到底愿不愿意
Joy Hirsch: Exactly and I think that that attitude really deters people from taking
愿意冒险我的意思是这是一把双刃剑,天才总是
the risk. I mean it’s a double edged sword. The genius term is often associated with the
和思维怪异联系在一起。一些被认为不存在
person that really changes the way we think. It could be something that didn’t exist
违背原理的东西,后来都成为一门独立学科,并发展起来
before that changes the course of our progress in some fundamental way. And so that person
人天生就与众不同。每个人都有创造力光环
by his or her nature stands out and is different. And yet all of us are different in our creative
激发全民创造可能是一条
sphere and that by incorporating the creative person into the mainstream it might be a way
发展人们创造力的有效方法
to encourage more creativity.
卡尔 齐默:在某种程度上,你懂的你说的关于天才的许多事即便是神经系统科学家
Carl Zimmer: In a way, you know, you’ve been talking a lot about the things that neuroscientists
也不能说明白。我们想要直奔主题,而答案就
can’t tell us about genius. We want easy answers and we think oh, the easy answers
在我们的大脑里。你可能好心提醒,我们不比神经科学家知道的多
are all in the brain. And you’re kind of warning us like well, we neuroscientists we
大脑是很复杂的社交性事物
don’t know all that much. The brain’s a complicated thing and it’s a social thing
所以我想问,你认为神经科学家怎样才能帮我们更好的了解天才?
too. So I mean what do you think that neuroscientists can do to help us understand genius better?
我的意思是,了解天才的最好的研究方法是哪些
I mean what are the kinds of studies that you think would be like the best ones to do
你是怎样想的?
to make us understand genius as you think of it?
乔伊 赫希:个体差异研究是一件很有趣的
Joy Hirsch: I think that in general the study of individual differences is a really interesting
选择的方向。差异在于有些人有着非凡的记忆力
direction to take. Differences in say there’s some people that have extraordinary memory
我们可以针对神经线路和记忆策略之间的关系进行实验
and we can design experiments to look at the neurocircuitry that’s associated with memory
并从中了解到为什么一个人的记忆要比另一个人的记忆力要好
strategies. And we learned something about what makes one person better at memorizing
不同的人数学能力与整合能力是有差异的
things than another. There are differences in how well we do mathematics and how well
了解这些差异的规律是很重要的
we can put things together. And understanding the rules for those differences is important.
譬如,神经科学家们最近发现一件事,我们从此了解到
For example, one of the things that neuroscientists have taught us recently is that the parts
大脑的大部分是互相连接的,以及相连的范围内
of the brain are all so richly interconnected and the extent to which they are connected
形成了处理功能
has a great deal to do with function.
卡尔 齐默:所以我们讨论的“大脑皮层的补丁”
Carl Zimmer: So we’re talking about say a patch of your cortex over here and another
分布在大脑各处,就像无数根绳索将它们连接到了一起
patch over here and there are like cables joining them together.
乔伊 赫希:以及,了解这些连接实际上是怎样工作
Joy Hirsch: Indeed. And how well those connections actually work is thought to contribute a great
对了解个人差异有很大帮助
deal to our individual differences.
卡尔 齐默:是不是有的人大脑的连接比别人多?
Carl Zimmer: Is it that some people have more connections than others? Or bigger connections
或者比别人的更大,或者优于他人?
or what are those underlying differences?
乔伊 赫希:这些都有可能。或者有些连接比较衰弱的案例
Joy Hirsch: Well it’s all of the above. In some cases the connections are actually
这些连接简单的多。在有些例子中,他们的连接
more richly enervated. There are simply more of them. In other cases they go to slightly
与他人不同。有些人的连接比较强烈
different places. In other cases they’re just stronger connections which means there’s
就是指干扰较少。我认为所有的假设都有可能
less noise in the brain. I mean all of those hypotheses are viable options. There’s evidence
所有假设都有迹象表明,每个人的都与他人的行为
for all of them and they contribute to considerable differences between performances of one person
有相当大的差异
and another.
卡尔 齐默:所以,如果我们去掉这些
Carl Zimmer: So if we start to get down to these real kind of biological components of
称为创造力,革新力,以及所有能够被加诸到天才身上的生物因素
creativity, of innovation and of ultimately what we might call genius, I’m wondering
我想,我们能推断天才是天生的还是后天培养出来的?
can we start to kind of figure out like are geniuses just born or are they made? Can we
推断出这些差异又是什么?你懂的,爱因斯坦刚出生的时候仅仅是一块白板
figure out like what the differences are? You know, was Einstein just a blank slate
而他的启蒙数学老师是一个非常好的老师
when he was born and he just happened to have a really good math teacher in first grade.
我的意思是—这些联系—我们对这些联系
I mean what – how do those connections – what do we know about how those connections develop
在童年,青年,成年时期是怎样发展的? 以及基因是起怎样作用的?
in children, in teenagers, in adults and how the genes play a role in all that.
乔伊 赫希:就像十万个为什么缠绕在我们心上
Joy Hirsch: That really is the $64,000 question and it is the question that we would like
我们想要得到答案。大脑是如何处理事情的?我们怎样做才能帮助大脑更好的处理这些事情?
to answer. How does the brain do it and how do we help the brain do it better? I think
我觉得你的问题引出了一个很重要的点,这就是
that your question really raises another really important point and that is how much bigger
提出疑问的作用比科学和方法论的作用大的多 我们需要天才来进行假设推断
our questions are than our science and our methodology. We need a genius to figure this
我们想要尽快解决问题,更好的回答这些问题, 并把它们运用到我们的实际生活中来
one out because we need to be able to answer those kinds of questions faster. We need to answer them better and we need to apply them to our lives.

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