未登录,请登录后再发表信息
最新评论 (0)
播放视频

Black Lives Matter创始人访谈录

An interview with the founders of Black Lives Matter | Alicia Garza, Patrisse Cullors, Opal Tometi

[启点字幕组]
Light up the world
米亚·波德桑:为什么现在“黑人的命也是命”对美国
Mia Birdsong: Why is Black Lives Matter important for the US right now
甚至在世界范围来说都影响深远呢
and in the world?
帕托丝·寇乐斯:“黑人的命也是命”是我们的行动口号
Patrisse Cullors: Black Lives Matter is our call to action.
它是我们重新定义
It is a tool to reimagine a world
可以无拘无束的生存
where black people are free to exist,
自由自在生活的这么一个世界的手段
free to live.
这是向我们的伙伴们展示我们不同的一种工具
It is a tool for our allies to show up differently for us.
我是在一个到处是警察的街区长大的
I grew up in a neighborhood that was heavily policed.
曾亲眼目睹自己的兄弟姐妹
I witnessed my brothers and my siblings
不断地遭到拦截并以法律的名义被搜身
continuously stopped and frisked by law enforcement.
记得我的家也曾被突袭过
I remember my home being raided.
作为一个孩童 我一直心存疑问 怎么会这样呢
And one of my questions as a child was, why?
为何偏偏是我们呢
Why us?
“黑人的命也是命”恰好解释了这一切
Black Lives Matter offers answers to the why.
它为世上年轻的非洲裔女孩们提供了一个新的视角
It offers a new vision for young black girls around the world
即 我们是值得被争取的
that we deserve to be fought for,
我们是值得要求当地政府为我们出头的
that we deserve to call on local governments to show up for us.
欧泊·特麦提:反对黑人的种族歧视——
Opal Tometi: And antiblack racism —
反对黑人的种族歧视并不单单发生在美国
And antiblack racism is not only happening in the United States.
事实上 种族歧视在全球各地都有发生
It’s actually happening all across the globe.
与以往相比 我们现在更需要的是能够在每个
And what we need now more than ever is a human rights movement
独特的环境中对抗系统性的种族歧视的人权运动
that challenges systemic racism in every single context.
这是基于非洲裔在我们日常绝大多数
We need this because the global reality
问题上都处于受制于人的不公正待遇
is that black people are subject to all sorts of disparities
的全球现状的考虑
in most of our most challenging issues of our day.
我考虑到气候变化这样的问题
I think about issues like climate change,
为何十个受气候变化影响最大的国家中有六个
and how six of the 10 worst impacted nations by climate change
会在非洲大陆
are actually on the continent of Africa.
人们在各种无情的灾难面前无能为力
People are reeling from all sorts of unnatural disasters,
灾难任意摆布他们的老房子
displacing them from their ancestral homes
不给他们留下任何能体面生活的机会
and leaving them without a chance at making a decent living.
我们也曾目睹马太飓风那样的
We also see disasters like Hurricane Matthew,
近阶段给很多国家造成了巨大的灾难
which recently wreaked havoc in many different nations,
对海地的影响更是惨烈
but caused the most damage to Haiti.
海地是这个半球最贫穷的国家
Haiti is the poorest country in this hemisphere,
它的居民都是黑色人种
and its inhabitants are black people.
而且我们在海地看到
And what we’re seeing in Haiti
他们确实面临很多的挑战
is that they were actually facing a number of challenges
甚至超过飓风本身所带来的挑战
that even preceded this hurricane.
他们受到地震的影响
They were reeling from the earthquake,
受到联合国维和人员带来的霍乱的影响
they were reeling from cholera that was brought in by UN peacekeepers
到现在也没有完全消除
and still hasn’t been eradicated.
这简直是难以想象的
This is unconscionable.
如果这个国家的人口不是黑人的话 这种情况也不会发生
And this would not happen if this nation didn’t have a population that was black,
我们不得不面对现实
and we have to be real about that.
但是现在振奋人心的是
But what’s most heartening right now
尽管有种种挑战的存在
is that despite these challenges,
我们仍可以看到一条
what we’re seeing is that there’s a network of Africans
贯穿整个非洲大陆的织网
all across the continent
他们奋起反抗并要求在应对气候变化时的公平性
who are rising up and fighting back and demanding climate justice.
米亚·波德桑:那么 爱丽西娅
MB: So Alicia,
你适才说到当黑人自由的时候
you’ve said that when black people are free,
每个人都会是自由的
everyone is free.
能说说是什么意思吗
Can you talk about what that means?
艾丽西娅:好的
Alicia Garza: Sure.
我认为种族和种族歧视可能是这个国家研究最多的
So I think race and racism is probably the most studied
社会 经济和政治现象
social, economic and political phenomenon in this country,
但它也极少被弄明白
but it’s also the least understood.
事实上 美国的种族
The reality is that race in the United States
包括黑人和白人(包括混血儿)
operates on a spectrum from black to white.
但这并不意味着(不同肤色的)人们不会遭遇种族歧视
Doesn’t mean that people who are in between don’t experience racism,
相反 在这些不同种族(肤色)的人群中 如果你(的肤色)更接近白人
but it means that the closer you are to white on that spectrum,
你的经济状况越好
the better off you are.
距离黑人越近
And the closer to black that you are on that spectrum
你的经济状况越差
the worse off your are.
当我们考虑在这个国家应如何解决问题时
When we think about how we address problems in this country,
我们经常从我“向下渗透正义”这方面入手
we often start from a place of trickle-down justice.
比方说(我们)把白人当做对照组
So using white folks as the control we say,
如果我们对白人做的好一点
well, if we make things better for white folks
那么其他每个人都将获得自由
then everybody else is going to get free.
但实际上这个法子行不通
But actually it doesn’t work that way.
我们必须从源头解决问题
We have to address problems at the root,
当你应对正发生在黑人社区的事情时
and when you deal with what’s happening in black communities,
这是一种沸腾的状态 对吗
it creates an effervescence, right?
所以 是向上沸腾 而非向下渗透
So a bubble up rather than a trickle down.
我来举例说明一下
Let me give an example.
当我们谈论工资差异的时候
When we talk about the wage gap,
我们常说 一位男性创造的1美元中 女性贡献了78美分
we often say women make 78 cents to every dollar that a man makes.
你们以前也听过这种说法
You all have heard that before.
但那些统计对象仅仅是白人女性和白人男性
But those are the statistics for white women and white men.
事实上 相较白人女性贡献的78美分
The reality is that black women make something like 64 cents
黑人女性创造了其中的64美分
to every 78 cents that white women make.
当我们说到拉丁裔女性时 这个数字降到58美分
When we talk about latinas, it goes down to about 58 cents.
如果我们只打算讨论本土女性
If we were to talk about indigenous women,
如果我们只讨论变性的女性
if we were to talk about trans women,
这个比例会更低
it would even go further down.
所以说
So again,
如果你去帮助最需要被帮助的人们
if you deal with those who are the most impacted,
而非帮助那些没有那么需要帮助的人
everybody has an opportunity to benefit from that,
那么每个人都有机会从中受益
rather than dealing with the folks who are not as impacted,
并希望能够慢慢向下惠及
and expecting it to trickle down.
米亚·波德桑:我热爱这种生气勃勃
MB: So I love the effervescence,
沸腾的感觉
bubbling up.
艾丽西娅·加尔扎:欢腾——如同香槟酒一样
AG: Effervescence — like champagne.
米亚·波德桑:谁不喜欢香槟酒呢 对吧
MB: Who doesn’t love a glass of champagne, right?
香槟和自由 不是吗
Champagne and freedom, right?
你们大家 还有其他想要的吗
What more could we want, y’all?
你们都用了一分钟
So you all have been doing this for a minute,
而且前几年曾——
and the last few years have been —
甚至不敢想象
well, I can’t even imagine,
但我确信变化是存在的
but I’m sure very transformative.
而且我知道你们都学了很多关于领导力方面的知识
And I know that you all have learned a lot about leadership.
对此 你们 有什么想和大家分享的吗
What do you want to share with these people about what you’ve learned
about leadership?
帕托丝 就从你开始吧
Patrisse, let’s start with you.
帕托丝·寇乐斯:是的 我们必须要投资于黑人领导力
PC: Yeah, we have to invest in black leadership.
这是过去几年我学到的最重要的东西
That’s what I’ve learned the most in the last few years.
我们看到成千上万的非洲裔向我们揭露其
What we’ve seen is thousands of black people showing up for our lives
享受的微乎其微的公共设施和少的可怜的支持
with very little infrastructure and very little support.
作为(黑人)运动(团体)的领导者 我们的任务不但只让我们自己(团体内部)关注
I think our work as movement leaders isn’t just about our own visibility
更在于我们让(黑人社会作为)整体被人关注
but rather how do we make the whole visible.
我们如何做到 不仅仅是为了自己
How do we not just fight for our individual selves
更是为了每个人的利益而奋斗呢
but fight for everybody?
我也在思考
And I also think
领导力看上去就像因关注黑人生活而出现在此的
leadership looks like everybody in this audience
在座的各位一样
showing up for black lives.
这不仅仅是关于到剧场看人来了 对吧
It’s not just about coming and watching people on a stage, right?
更是关于你如何成为那样的领导者——
It’s about how do you become that leader —
无论是在你的工作单位还是家中
whether it’s in your workplace, whether it’s in your home —
要相信这个运动(团体)是为了非洲裔而不仅仅是我们
and believe that the movement for black lives isn’t just for us,
但更是为了每个人的生命
but it’s for everybody.
米亚·波德桑:奥泊尔 你呢
MB: What about you, Opal?
奥泊尔·麦特提:我学习了大量关于互相依赖方面的知识
OT: So I’ve been learning a great deal about interdependence.
学习了如何做到信任你的团队
I’ve been learning about how to trust your team.
我是带着新的口号
I’ve come up with this new mantra
从三个月的休假中回来的
after coming back from a three-month sabbatical,
这点对于身居高位的非洲裔女性来说很少见
which is rare for black women to take who are in leadership,
但我真的觉得练习如何退出
but I felt it was really important for my leadership and for my team
如何介入
to also practice stepping back
对于我的领导水平及团队都相当重要
as well as also sometimes stepping in.
在这一过程中我学到的是 我们需要承认
And what I learned in this process was that we need to acknowledge
不同的人会做出不同的贡献
that different people contribute different strengths,
而且为了我们整个团队的美好未来
and that in order for our entire team to flourish,
我们必须要允许大家分享 允许大家表现
we have to allow them to share and allow them to shine.
休假期间
And so during my sabbatical
我仍旧和团队联系并参与工作
with the organization that I also work with,
我看到 我不在的时候 我们的团队仍是蒸蒸日上
I saw our team rise up in my absence.
他们能提出新的项目
They were able to launch new programs,
募捐
fundraise.
当我回来的时候
And when I came back,
不得不由衷地感激和赞扬他们
I had to give them a lot of gratitude and praise
因为他们向我展示了对我的支持
because they showed me that they truly had my back
并且他们自己也拥有很多的支持者
and that they truly had their own backs.
你知道的 在我休假的这段时间
You know, in this process of my sabbatical,
我想起
I was really reminded
南部非洲的乌班图理念
of this Southern African philosophy of Ubuntu.
我之为我是因为你
I am because you are;
你之为你是因为我
you are because I am.
而且我意识到自己的领导水平
And I realized that my own leadership,
和我所做的贡献
and the contributions that I’m able to make,
在很大程度上得益于他们的贡献
is in large part due to the contributions that they make, right?
我必须承认并意识到这一点
And I have to acknowledge that, and I have to see that,
我的新的口号是“保持淡定 相信团队”
and so my new mantra is, “Keep calm and trust the team.”
不仅如此
And also,
“保持淡定 感谢团队”
“Keep calm and thank the team.”
米亚·波德桑:你知道 有件事我觉得自己听过
MB: You know, one of the things I feel like I’ve heard
“黑人的命也是命”比其他任何地方都多
in the context of the Black Lives Matter movement more than anywhere else
的是要成为有领导力的运动(团体)
is about being a leaderful movement,
那真是一个很美妙的概念
and that’s such a beautiful concept,
而且我认为
and I think that something
女性常在讨论中提及的领导力
that women often bring to the conversation about leadership
确实是由很多方面组成的
is really the collective piece.
艾丽西娅 你呢
What about you, Alicia?
艾丽西娅:是的…
AG: Yeah …
有多少人听过这样的说法 领导人都是孤独者
How many of you heard that saying that leadership is lonely?
我觉得这种说法的形成有环境的因素
I think that there is an element where leadership is lonely,
但也觉得 其实大可不必如此
but I also believe that it doesn’t have to be like that.
而且为了我们能够达到那样的水平
And in order for us to get to that point,
有些事情我们现在就可以着手准备了
I think there’s a few things that we need to be doing.
其一就是 我们不应该迷信领导
So one is we have to stop treating leaders like superheroes.
大家都是尝试去做非凡之事的平凡之人
We are ordinary people attempting to do extraordinary things,
在这条路上我们都需要他人的支持
and so we need to be supported in that way.
我学到的另一件关于领导力的事就是
The other thing that I’ve learned about leadership
领导力和名声还是有不同之处的 不是吗
is that there’s a difference between leadership and celebrities, right?
相较于成为那些 尝试解决民众问题的人们
And there’s a way in which we’ve been kind of transformed into celebrities
我们在一定程度上已经以某种形式成了名人
rather than people who are trying to solve a problem.
而我们对待名人的态度是多变的 不是吗
And the way that we treat celebrities is very fickle, right?
我们前一天喜欢他们
We like them one day,
第二天就不喜欢他们的穿着了
we don’t like what they’re wearing the next day,
我们突然有了一个议题 对吗
and all of a sudden we have issues, right?
所以我们应该把他们拉下神坛
So we need to stop deifying leaders
这样更多的民众将进入领导层
so that more people will step into leadership.
由于领导人会接受无限的审查
Lots of people are terrified to step into leadership
并且我们对领导人总是不留情面
because of how much scrutiny they receive
所以 很多人对进入领导层心生恐惧
and how brutal we are with leaders.
关于领导力 我学到的最后一件事
And then the last thing that I’ve learned about leadership
当每个人都喜欢你的时候 做领导人很容易
is that it’s really easy to be a leader when everybody likes you.
当你不得不做出艰难的决定
But it’s hard to be a leader when you have to make hard choices
不得不做出正确的选择而民众又不喜欢你这样做
and when you have to do what’s right,
的时候 当领导又是很难的
even though people are not going to like you for it.
那样的话
And so in that way,
我认为支持领导层的另一种途径
I think another way that we can support leaders
就是和我们并肩战斗
is to struggle with us,
进行政治上的
but struggle with us politically,
而非针对个人的斗争
not personally.
我们可以在团结友好的情况下保留不同意见
We can have disagreements without being disagreeable,
但是提升彼此对我们每个人来讲都很重要
but it’s important for us to sharpen each other,
那样的话 我们都有上升的空间
so that we all can rise.
米亚·波德桑:说得太好了 谢谢你
MB: That’s beautiful, thank you.
那么你们每天在做的事情
So you all are doing work
就会迫使你们去面对不合常理的
that forces you to face some brutal, painful realities
令人不快的现实
on a daily basis.
在那样的环境下
What gives you hope
是什么给你们希望 鼓励你们的呢
and inspires you in that context?
帕托丝·寇乐斯:我对非洲裔的未来是充满希望的
PC: I am hopeful for black futures.
我这样说是因为我们生活在
And I say that because we live in a society
一个被黑人的死亡所萦绕的世界
that’s so obsessed with black death.
在电视上
We have images of our death on the TV screen,
在推特上
on our Twitter timelines,
在脸书上都有我们死亡的影像
on our Facebook timelines,
但是假使换作我们来想象黑人的生活会怎样呢
but what if instead we imagine black life?
我们想象着黑人能够生活且兴旺发达
We imagine black people living and thriving.
而且——
And that —
这也激励着我
that inspires me.
欧泊·特麦提:这些天激励我的是移民们
OT: What inspires me these days are immigrants.
为了生存 全世界的移民都竭尽所能
Immigrants all over the world who are doing the best that they can
为了谋生 为了生存并不断繁衍
to make a living, to survive and also to thrive.
现在有超过两亿四千四百万民众
Right now there are over 244 million people
并非生活在他们的出生之地
who aren’t living in their country of origin.
这个数字较之2000年有了40%的增长
This is a 40 percent increase since the year 2000.
这就告诉我们
So what this tells me
在全球范围内(不公平的)差异只会使情况恶化
is that the disparities across the globe are only getting worse.
有不少人有勇气 有金钱 有能力离开自己的家园
Yet there are people who are finding the strength and wherewithal to travel,
搬迁
to move,
竭力提升自己的
to eke out a better living for themselves
自己家庭的以及自己爱的人的生活水平
and to provide for their families and their loved ones.
这些人中有部分是
And some of these people who are immigrants
非法移民
are also undocumented.
他们是非法的
They’re unauthorized.
这更激励着我
And they inspire me even more
因为尽管我们的社会告诉他们说他们是不受欢迎的
because although our society is telling them, you’re not wanted,
“这儿不需要你们”
you’re not needed here,
他们更容易遭受工资偷窃的伤害[一种违法的 损害雇工权益的 经常发生在美国非法移民身上的行为]
and they’re highly vulnerable and subject to abuse, to wage theft,
被剥削 被袭击[出于恐惧外国人而带来的攻击]
to exploitation and xenophobic attacks,
他们中的很多人开始在自己的社区组织起来
many of them are also beginning to organize in their communities.
而且我正看到一个新兴的非洲裔网络
And what I’m seeing is that there’s also an emerging network
没有登记的黑人正抵制框架工作
of black, undocumented people who are resisting the framework,
而且抵抗因他们而存在的刑事犯罪
and resisting the criminalization of their existence.
那对我来说是难以置信的力量
And that to me is incredibly powerful
每一天都激励着我
and inspires me every singe day.
米亚·波德桑:谢谢
MB: Thank you.
艾丽西娅呢
Alicia?
艾丽西娅·加尔扎:我们知道年轻人代表着现在和未来
AG: So we know that young people are the present and the future,
但积极我的却是老年人
but what inspires me are older people
在(黑人)运动(团体)中的贡献
who are becoming transformed in the service of this movement.
我们都知道当你慢慢变老的时候
We all know that as you get older,
你会有自己根深蒂固的一套方法
you get a little more entrenched in your ways.
这也发生在我身上 我知道那是对的
It’s happening to me, I know that’s right.
当我看到他们做事的方式的时候 我深受鼓舞
But I’m so inspired when I see people who have a way that they do things,
他们有自己认知这个世界的方式
have a way that they think about the world,
而且他们有足够的勇气开放胸怀 倾听
and they’re courageous enough to be open to listening to what the experiences are
如我们中很多人想过的那种在稍微公平
of so many of us who want to live in world that’s just
一点的世界生活的经历
and want to live in a world that’s equitable.
我也被所见到的老人们
And I’m also inspired by the actions that I’m seeing older people taking
在(黑人)运动(团体)中的表现所激励
in service of this movement.
当看到老人以自己的能力迈入领导层
I’m inspired by seeing older people step into their own power and leadership
并且说“我不是要给你火把
and say, “I’m not passing a torch,
而是要帮你点亮它”时我深受鼓舞
I’m helping you light the fire.”
米亚·波德桑:我喜欢那个样子——
MB: I love that —
没错
yes.
经过一系列的行动
So in terms of action,
我认为能够坐在这儿倾听大家的心声挺棒的
I think that it is awesome to sit here and be able to listen to you all,
也使我们解放思想 转变观念
and to have our minds open and shift,
但那并不能给非洲裔带来自由
but that’s not going to get black people free.
所以 如果有某件你希望这儿的观众
So if you had one thing you would like this audience
或者世界各地正在看(我们访谈节目的)人
and the folks who are watching around the world to actually do,
会是什么呢
what would that be?
艾丽西娅·加尔扎:好的 有两个能迅速做的事情
AG: OK, two quick ones.
第一 打电话给白宫
One, call the White House.
水源保护者被强制从
The water protectors are being forcibly removed
他们搭建的赖以生存的帐篷中搬出
from the camp that they have set up to defend what keeps us alive.
而且那也牵涉到黑人的生活
And that is intricately related to black lives.
所以 直接打电话给白宫 要求他们停止这种做法
So definitely call the White House and demand that they stop doing that.
在我们作讲演时
There are tanks
有坦克和警察会抓捕任何一个单独的个人
and police officers arresting every single person there as we speak.
能做的第二件事
The second thing that you can do
是参与某件事情
is to join something.
并成为其中的一部分
Be a part of something.
有很多团体 集团——
There are groups, collectives —
不是必须参加公益性质的 你知道我的意思吗
doesn’t have to be a non-profit, you know what I mean?
但是现在有几个群体正在我们社区工作
But there are groups that are doing work in our communities right now
以确保非洲裔的正常生活 每个人都能正常生活
to make sure that black lives matter so all lives matter.
介入
Get involved;
不要(只是)坐在沙发上告诉人们 你认为他们应该做的事情
don’t sit on your couch and tell people what you think they should be doing.
要参与其中
Go do it with us.
米亚·波德桑:你们两位还有什么要补充的吗
MB: Do you guys want to add anything?
那就这样吧 好的 那么——
That’s good? All right. So —
而且我认为若是所参与的这件事情
And I think that the joining something,
在你身边并不存在的话 那么就由你来开始吧
like if you feel like there’s not something where you are, start it.
艾丽西娅·加尔扎:创造它
AG: Start it.
米亚·波德桑:我们正在聊的这些
MB: These conversations that we’re having,
以及和其他人谈的
have those conversations with somebody else.
为避免它成为一次空谈
And then instead of just letting it be a talk that you had,
事实上已经决定开始这么做了
actually decide to start something.
欧泊·特麦提:没错
OT: That’s right.
米亚·波德桑:我是说 那就是你们所努力的
MB: I mean, that’s what you all did.
开始一件事情 看看会发生什么
You started something, and look what’s happened.
非常感谢你们今天能来到这儿
Thank you all so much for being here with us today.
欧泊·特麦提:谢谢
OT: Thank you.

发表评论

译制信息
视频概述

近年来,美国发生种族冲突的暴力事件越来越频繁。人们斗希望能够安居乐业,但问题频发的根源是什么?应如何看待由非洲裔创建的Black lives matter?

听录译者

收集自网络

翻译译者

启点—飞雪群山

审核员

自动通过审核

视频来源

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbicAmaXYtM

相关推荐